Talk:Madison (dance)

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Hi Y'all, Can someone please email me a copy of the dance steps for the Madision dance, and also for the Hully Gully. Many thnaks. Johnny S' Line Dnace Instructor. England Email address: dance4u@bigwig.net or js@bigwig.net— Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.40.6.7 (talk) 12:57, 15 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

--69.107.135.181 10:45, 11 January 2006 (UTC)can someone post the dance steps in the article as part of the choregraphy? I think it should be documented.[reply]

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This entry is totally incorrect. The dance orginated in Columbus, Ohio, USA.

www.columbusmusichistory.com/html/madison_1.html So what is the Madison dance anyway? If you were a teenager in the late 50’s or early 60’s, you know that the Madison is a line dance that was the biggest dance craze of the era, not just in the USA, but around the world. If you saw the John Waters 1988 movie Hairspray or have seen the current television series American Dreams, you have seen the kids on the dance floor in a long line, much like the Soul Train line of the 70’s, doing the Madison.

The Madison is a basic back-and-forth shuffle done in a line, with a variety of ‘call outs’ for various steps, such as the Double Cross, the Cleveland Box, The Basketball (with Wilt Chamberlain), the Big “M”, The “T” Time, The Jackie Gleason and The Birdland.

The craze spawned Madison dance teams across the nation and intense competitions from city to city, much like the Twist in the 50’s and 60’s, Disco in the 70’s, Break-dancing in the 80’s and the Electric Slide in the 90’s. To this day, the Madison is still taught at many dance studios and it’s not unusual to see it performed at reunions, weddings and parties.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.69.148.34 (talk) 21:10, 28 June 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You're correct. I looked into it, and have changed the writeup accordingly, linking it to the site you've referenced. The scene in the French movie was apparently well-known, which is probably where the confusion comes. The dance pre-dates the movie by several years.24.64.223.203 02:22, 21 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I have added a link to a newspaper article establishing the Columbus version. In my opinion the hairdresser story should be reworded to state that it was how the dance made it to England or something similar. How can someone be said to have created something that they brought back from somewhere else? Any takers? Steve Pastor 18:34, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've searched for "Malcolm Stern" and "hairdresser" as well as "Malcolm Stern" and "Madison" on Google and haven't had any luck except with Wikipedia mirror sites. I am inclined to not believe this version of the origin of the dance. According to the story, the dance would have then been invented in Spain, which seems unlikely. It's possible that Stern brought the dance to London (from whatever true location of origin), but I have not found any evidence of this either. Unless the Stern facts can be reputably cited I think they should go. - AKeen 17:58, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you. That's why I migrated it to the bottom of the article. How long shall we wait? Steve Pastor 21:53, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the info about the hairdresser originating the dance. We haven't found any evidence to back up this version. - AKeen 19:39, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merging The Madison and The Nutbush

Hello everyone,

It has been suggested that the article The Nutbush (Dance) be merged with Madison (dance).

I am not too much into dancing, so you might need to update me if I am wrong.

Personally I would keep both articles the way the are, referencing to each other, it seems to be more complicated but it could make more sense.

The reason why is fairly simple. The Madison seems to have originated in the 50's and I am not sure if the younger generation would know that dance. I did not. The Nutbush, however, might be better known with them. For ease of use I would really keep it. Who looks for the Nutbush will find it and who looks for the Madison will find it too, and as both articles link to each other and no information is lost for the reader. Furthermore the Nutbush is very closely related to the Tina Turner song, which differentiates it from the Madison. In one article it is mentioned that the dance is similar to the Macarena, too. So I guess the experts need to determine wheter they are identical dances or different but just similar.

But as mentioned before, I do not know much about dancing.

Have a great day, DoxTxob 19:07, 21 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I remove the merge tag from the article because no controverse opinions have been added within months DoxTxob 03:37, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I don't know how I missed this discussion earlier. I've never heard of the Nutbush, but if it really is the same dance to a different song, I agree that a merging might be a good idea. However, I would like to be sure that they are the same thing. I'm not sure which article should be merged into which. Among swing dancer (especially lindy hoppers), the Madison is the more widely-known name. What groups refer to it as the Nutbush? —Cswrye 17:40, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't support a merge. I have never heard of "the Nutbush," but have heard of the Madison extensively. I don't know if it's an era thing, but They seem different enough to keep apart, since many other novelty/line dances have their own articles, ie Cha cha slide has an article as well as electric slide. If a reader is interested in either article they are easily linked to each other. - AKeen 16:19, 12 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Madison featured "called steps". The Nutbush appears to be a simplier version that does not have any called steps. The called steps would be quite challenging. Repeating the same sequence of steps ad nauseum would be less of a challenge. This makes the the two dances pretty dissimilar, in spite of having similar steps. Steve Pastor 20:49, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As performed in the film version of "Hairspray", the Madison is NOT the same dance as described at the BrushFire Press site. I'm going to list the steps as danced in the film and note that the dances are different. Anybody want to guess what is going on? Steve Pastor 20:47, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's looking more and more to me that these two dances are distinct and should not be merged. Unless someone can provide evidence that they are the same dance soon, I will remove the merge tag. —Cswrye 22:06, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the merge tags. Seems like there was a general agreement that the dances are distinct. - AKeen 16:50, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Band of Outsiders

I viewed the dance sequence which the dvd edition identifies as the Madison. It is nothing like the dance done as done in Hairspray and does not feature "to the left" as mentioned in the newspaper article establishing the original. If you follw one of the links on the "outsiders" wiki page you will see this "Godard must have been drawing not just on the dance brought to France by the Nicholas Brothers". Problem is, those guys were tappers, and didn't create the dance, as far as we can verify. First mention of the Madison is in a 2001 dvd release. Steve Pastor 15:56, 10 January 2007 (UTC) I hope by now it is accepted that the scene in this film does not represent "the Madison": totally different steps, totally different music. I am changing the caption on the picture to reflect this. Steve Pastor 20:23, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

On the DVD there's an interview in which Anna Karina calls the dance 'the Madison scene', so it wasn't invented for the DVD. Doesn't mean it really is a Madison though, just that they thought it was. Cop 633 02:22, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can you tell us when that interview was conducted? I'm wondering if it was done for inclusion on the dvd edition. Steve Pastor 21:55, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it was done for the Criterion DVD in 2002. Karina says "...there was this dance we used to do called the Madison ... we used to go and rehearse in a nearby nightclub. We rehearsed the Madison for 2 or 3 weeks ... I loved doing it because musical comedies are my favourite thing". So there you go. I'm not saying you're wrong about the dance, but this does seem to be evidence that the three actors thought they were doing a Madison and it wasn't just a mistake by the DVD producers. Cop 633 00:04, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, they were told that by one of the Nicholas Brothers, according to one source. The Nicholas Bros. do a short routine in Janet Jackson's "Alright". They were awesome tappers. But they gave these guys some bad info on the Madison. I tried to learn the dance from the dvd. It's not real easy. I could see where it would require a bit of rehearsal time. And I am pretty sure that they skip one whole section the first time they go through it. Cool dance. Cool scene. But not the orignal Madison from the USA. Steve Pastor 15:36, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Madison noted in "Jookin"

Katrina Hazzard-Gordon writes in her book (Jookin' The Rise of Social Dance Formations in the African-American Culture. Temple University Press. 1990. page 158 ISBN 0-97722-613-X Parameter error in {{ISBN}}: checksum) that the Madison was done with "men and women lined up facing each other and performed the same steps while a couple or individuals danced between the lines, exhibiting their proficiency and creativity". She lists the Time article as a reference. The Time article says no such thing, and agrees with the description in this wiki article. Hazzard-Gordon adds text about "the line and cirlce were both suriviving dance formats shared by many of the West African ethnic gorups." etc, etc. The Time article has no such information, and contradicts this description. Steve Pastor (talk) 18:33, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]