Template talk:Infobox province or territory of Canada

Proposal - remove "established" parameter from template

The "established" Parameter is set by default to confederation date and only confederation date. This removes the ability to add any additional information relating to establishment history. Nova Scotia and New Brunswick were established before confederation as colonies and joined confederation later on, and Newfoundland was a full dominion for a few decades before joining. Most of that type of information appears on pages for federal units outside of Canada, (example: The New South Wales page includes the date of establishment as a colony, date of achieving responsible government, and date of joining Australia). Considering the unique establishment history of each province, while they should obviously each include their confederation dates, there should be the possibility of using the "established" Parameter uniquely on each. WanukeX (talk) 18:41, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Agreed. Dates different provinces joined Canada are different, and dates established also differ trackratte (talk) 22:06, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Should we maybe have a line after confederation date for showing what the province was previously? E.g., split from NWT; English colony; split from Province of Canada? —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 18:12, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Other name

We need a wider talk on random orher names.... Name in the official local language =,ᒪᓂᑐᐤ-ᐘᐳᐤ Manitou-wapow (Cree)
ᒪᓂᑐᐸ Manidoobaa (Ojibwe)--Moxy- 10:55, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

If there's disagreement on what info should go in an article's infobox it should be discussed there.

Breaking the template here is the same as removing cited information across a host of pages without consensus, where a number of removals would be from pages where there is no evidence of any dispute, and for a page that does have a discussion/dispute, breaking the template to remove the rendering of that information doesn't actually engage any of those issues on that specific page towards gaining consensus.For example, I don't see any evidence of an ongoing edit war for BC, Nfld, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, etc (that I've spot checked), so why are we breaking those pages template?

If there's a dispute about what names are official for Manitoba, then just bring it up there. And there really shouldn't be disputes about official names, they're official and therefore readily sourced. For example, at Manitoba's official register we see only "Manitoba" and nothing else. So unless there's an official provincial source clearly showing defacto official usage, then it's pretty cut and dry. trackratte (talk) 11:21, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

We did have talks....led us to this point.-Moxy- 20:31, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Leave out the parameter. We already have 'other languages' mentioned in the infoboxes of each province & territory, where required. We don't need the 'name' of provinces/territories in any other language & should match'em with what's in the article title. GoodDay (talk) 15:55, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Language spoken and what a place is called are two completely different issues. Also, certain places have two or more equally valid official / legal names which are a matter of fact and should be presented as befits an encyclopedia.

Now, individual pages can have consensus to display different things, but the fact for this template is that there are multiple names for certain place and so the template must be able to display that information.

The existence of a given parameter doesn't force every page to fill it with information, clearly. trackratte (talk) 16:16, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

We already have 'other languages' listed in the infoboxes. We don't need the name of the topic shown at the top of the infobox, in any version accept what the article title is. GoodDay (talk) 16:25, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Once again, the parameter is for the other (equally valid/official) name of a place, not the language spoken in that place. They are not mutually redundant parameters, which is probably why all templates for places have some sort of "other name" parameter, such as the bodies of water template, infobox settlement, infobox country, etc. trackratte (talk) 16:42, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

We match the article title, that should suffice. GoodDay (talk) 16:44, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

It might suffice in certain articles, but not for others. Having a parameter in a template doesn't force all pages to fill it, so your proposal for a given page is entirely possible. However, given the wide number of different "place" infobox templates and that they all have this same type of "other name" parameter underlines that these "place" templates require the parameter. And it's up to individual page communities to decide how or if to use it. trackratte (talk) 16:50, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Let's then decide on the appropriate place, to have such a discussion concerning the Canadian provinces & territories. GoodDay (talk) 17:00, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Still no sources claiming these are official alternative names......hard to have 12 different names when a place is officially unilingual. Very undue and bias to list just random names. Parameter = native_name = Name in the official local language...like Russian Federation vs Российская Федерация. Sources sources sources --Moxy- 20:31, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Indeed, the only bilingual province is New Brunswick. GoodDay (talk) 21:06, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

@GoodDay: There are four jurisdictions where government documents regularly use a non-English name: Québec, Nouveau-Brunswick, Territoires du Nord-Ouest, and ᓄᓇᕗᑦ. I think the other_names parameter should be used for those four cases. —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 18:07, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

I'd stick with just the english version, as this is english language Wikipedia. GoodDay (talk) 22:08, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Bug in population total and estimate, and placement of their refs

Greetings and felicitations. The references for the fields "population_total" and "population_est" are preceded by a space, which violates MOS:CITEPUNCT. Example from Quebec:

Population (2021)
 • Total 8,501,833 [2]
 • Estimate (Q4 2022) 8,751,352 [3]

(This is the same type of bug as the one I posted in Template talk:Infobox drug#Template-protected edit request on 7 March 2023, so the same solution may apply, or at least help.) — DocWatson42 (talk) 05:21, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

 Fixed Moxy- 05:45, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. ^_^ — DocWatson42 (talk) 05:47, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Undocumented parameter

Hello! How to make a undocumented parameter visible in the infobox? I would like to add an Ontario nickname.

2804:14C:58:5564:7553:605B:6F58:7DC9 (talk) 22:32, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

There is already a parameter for "motto". Magnolia677 (talk) 22:59, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Motto and nickname are different things. 187.38.62.138 (talk) 00:14, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

That parameter is not documented because it does not currently exist in the template code. If you believe it ought to, you'd need to gain consensus for that viewpoint. Why do you feel this would be beneficial? Nikkimaria (talk) 00:34, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Nicknames of cities, provinces or states are important because they "reveal" how the inhabitants see the place. Many nicknames "translate" what the place is better than the official name (for example: The City That Never Sleeps or The Melting Pot for New York City). Locale nicknames are documented in numerous articles and in different languages. The Ontario article in Spanish, for example, already mentions the province's nickname: The Heartland. 2804:14C:58:5564:B96F:72A:9246:BF63 (talk) 01:18, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

The problem that tends to arise is that there are many potential options, with varying level of sourcing quality, and without space to explain - this doesn't translate well into the proposed format. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:32, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

I feel the leed is a better place for this information. Do you have an example where you would use this new feature? --Trialpears (talk) 01:40, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

It's okay to have a lot of options for nicknames. In the New York City article, for example, there are three options plus a link to other nicknames. In Ontario, isn't "The Heartland" Province the best known nickname? 2804:14C:58:5564:B96F:72A:9246:BF63 (talk) 02:17, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Is it? A quick search suggests that name is also used for Manitoba as well as some international provinces. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:47, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

My search engine shows many results relating "The Heartland Province" to the province of Ontario. Could you please send me a font that shows Manitoba related to the nickname?

I don't see a problem with two different places having the same nicknames. São Paulo, in Brazil, is known as The City That Never Sleeps, as well as several other cities with the same nickname. This does not invalidate the nickname for New York or any other place that shares the nickname.

The fact is, the province of Ontario is known by one or more nicknames and these nicknames are important cultural information. If so many localities have their nicknames documented on Wikipedia, why can't Ontario? 2804:14C:58:5564:B96F:72A:9246:BF63 (talk) 03:32, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

One of Manitoba's nicknames is "Canada's Heart Beats", it is similar to "The Heartland Province", therefore the provinces do not have identical nicknames. 187.38.62.138 (talk) 03:51, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Not a nickname...it's a slogan. This is exactly why it's not used. Moxy- 04:12, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

I'll use one of New York's nicknames again to make my point: "The City That Never Sleeps" is a slogan. And this slogan is also a nickname for several cities in the world. Wikipedia itself recognizes "The Heartland Province" as a nickname for the province of Ontario in another article with the appropriate references: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_provincial_and_territorial_nicknames_in_Canada

Province of Ontario articles in other languages also mention "The Heartland Province as a nickname". 2804:14C:58:5564:B96F:72A:9246:BF63 (talk) 04:58, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

The reference used in that article is the "CashNetUSA Blog", which is definitely not an "appropriate reference". And that's often the level of sourcing that accompanies nicknames, unfortunately. This example referring to Manitoba as Canada's heartland province is slightly better, but not much. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:28, 26 March 2023 (UTC)