Talk:H2S (radar)

Origin of H2S name

There are a number of spurious explanations for how H2S received its name (some for understandable reasons) however, according to A. P. Rowe, who was at TRE at the time, the real reason is this:

When H2S was first being developed it was initially referred to as the Town Finder or TF, as that was the purpose of the system, i.e. to allow RAF Navigators to find their target towns at night and in all weathers, however it was realised that this name might be too obvious and so would eventually need changing for security reasons. At around this time Lord Cherwell (Professor Lindemann) was being shown round TRE and was shown the TF equipment and on seeing it he enquired as to it's purpose. On being told that the device would show a picture of the ground below in all weathers and at night (this was something akin to Science Fiction then) he replied incredulously: It stinks, it stinks! As a private joke the researchers from then-on referred to the TF system as H2S - the name of the foul-smelling gas given-off by rotten eggs (Hydrogen Sulphide) Some time later, Cherwell re-visited TRE and the TF system had by then been officially named H2S and the joke almost forgotten, but Cherwell on seeing the system again and hearing it called 'H2S' enquired why it had such a name. Quick as a flash, some bright-spark, remembering the 'It stinks' episode and wanting to save embarrasment on both sides, replied Home-Sweet-Home

Ian Dunster 13:31, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

According to Prof. R V Jones (Chief of Air Scientific Intelligence), the H2S was a reference to the cavity magnetron itself. Again the credit went to Lord Cherwell on seeing the unbelievably simple construction of the magnetron, said that stunk that no-one had though of it before. 20.133.0.13 12:25, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, A.P.Rowe was one of the team at TRE that developed H2S. Jones was only involved on a wider level, so I'm inclined to believe Rowe as he was actually there. The H2S name does refer to the entire equipment and not just the resonant-cavity magnetron (RCM), however the RCM's main application was the H2S system, the ASV usage came later, and at a lower priority, therefore it's possible that Jones associated the 'H2S' name with the RCM. The Rowe book BTW, is One Story of Radar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.40.248.89 (talk) 22:35, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

The part of the article that describes the German's investigation of H2S does not square with the facts. The Germans were well aware that a 10cm radar was a desireable thing to have. The Germans were also aware that Britain had a fully working 10cm (actually 9.1cm) radar system (H2S), but were unable to fathom out how we were generating the transmitted signal at such unbelievable power. How do we know that the Germans were aware of our radar? Their version of window, the bundles of alluminium strips dropped from aircraft to blind radar (which the Germans had codenamed Düpple) were specifically cut to blind a 9.1cm radar system, of which H2S was the only example. The Germans eventually found the magnetron and built their own version of H2S, but by the time they got it into service, the only thing it detected was defeat. 20.133.0.13 12:25, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

magus732 4:05PM 6/2/2008 (ET) Don't know how important for the article this is, but in the listed radar systems, accourding to just about evry book and website I've seen, it says that the 2 should be subscripted, meaning it should be a ₂, not a 2.

The Germans could detect the H2S transmissions across the Channel when the aircraft tested their equipment on the ground before take off. That's how powerful the H2S's transmitter was. As regards the US H2X system, Bernard Lovell's biography by Dudley Saward states that the system was inferior to the contemporary H2S Mk III UK system, and that US engineers had initially stated that no such system as H2S was possible in the first place. Later they tried to get their H2X system adopted by the RAF. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.40.248.89 (talk) 22:13, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

BTW, the A. P. Rowe mentioned in the initial post is this one: A. P. Rowe - he was the head of TRE at the time — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.4.57.101 (talk) 09:14, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

This is pure speculation and O.R. but a more obvious meaning of the acronym H2S might be 'Horizontal Surface' - or even 'Horizontal '2'D Surface' - people did tend to like using simple obvious meanings in acronyms.. A curious aside is that my Grandfather (his name was Geoffrey Stuart Holiday) might have worked on this radar, he was apparently a specialist in miniaturisation and one of the projects he worked on was described as a moving map radar. - I have looked for it before on WP but only found it today while researching microwaves - including magnetrons, as am in the earliest stages of designing a 'high power' 3 cm to 1 cm microwave system - though certainly not for use in radar.. :) Lucien86 (talk) 20:19, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

The origin of the term is as stated at the start of this section - upon seeing early work on the system and being told what it would do, Lord Cherwell said 'It stinks, it stinks' and thereafter the TRE team referred to it as H2S - hydrogen sulphide. Later when he visited TRE again, on asking why it was called H2S they didn't want to offend him or hurt his feelings over their earlier joke at his expense, so 'one bright spark' quipped 'Home Sweet Home'. That's it. So the 'H2S' name is, in effect, a private joke. Hydrogen Sulphide is a very foul-smelling compound, like the smell of rotten eggs. So 'it stinks'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.7.147.13 (talk) 18:37, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

A useful description of the development of H2S on the Blumlein's family site here: [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.7.147.13 (talk) 19:53, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

As an aside, when the Germans captured the so-called Rotterdam Gerat from the crashed Stirling the equipment was damaged and the PPI display had been destroyed so that they only had a rough idea what the system would do. It was around a year or so later when they finally recovered an intact display unit and to test the combined equipment, the newly-recovered intact display and the Rotterdam Gerat recovered earlier, they set it all up on the roof of one of Berlin's Flak Towers. When Göring was shown the equipment in action he was apparently horrified, he said something like; 'My god, the English really can see in the dark!' - amongst other things, there on the PPI screen were all the other Flak Towers around Berlin plainly distinguishable. That's how astounding H2S was. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.7.147.13 (talk) 10:15, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Post WW2

H2S was apparently used until just after the Falklands. Some post WW2 info. would be nice. 86.134.182.189 (talk) 20:04, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I've now added a bit of post-war history, and amended the intro para accordingly. Letdorf (talk) 12:38, 14 January 2009 (UTC).

Coastal Command, what Coastal Command?

I am astounded an entire article on ASV says nothing about the controversy between Bomber and Coastal Commands.... (I'll get to it when I can.) TREKphiler ^{hit me ♠} 16:10, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

British H2S and American H2X

The H2S article claims that the American H2X was merely an adaptation of the British 10cm MkIII H2S.

The H2X article claims that the American H2X introduced 3cm radar and that this was later adopted as the british H2SMkIII 3cm.

Which is right? I suspect I know but can anybody point to a source? Ex nihil ^(talk) 03:46, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Although its a long time since I read it Bernard Lovell's biography by Dudley Saward mentions the arguments that the TRE had with the Americans over the worth of H2S, their opinion being IIRC that it wouldn't work, however whether the US or UK 3cm version of H2S was first or not I cannot remember. I seem to remember that they were actually different designs, the US 3cm one being designed by MIT, whereas the 3cm H2S Mk III was designed by the TRE.

BTW, there are some fascinating online talks by Lovell on his H2S radar work at TRE online here: [2] and he mentions where the 'H2S' name came from here: [3] - it was Cherwell (Professor Lindemann) who said It stinks!' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.112.84.240 (talk) 17:19, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Merger proposal

Make one better article from a good one and a mediocre stub!!--Petebutt (talk) 07:04, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

You say a mediocre stub, but what more could you say on the subject of Fishpond? Most sources do not devote more than a paragraph to the subject. But, having said that, the subject could usefully be merged into H2S, possibly in a section discussing other developments. In fact: so much so that I have gone ahead and done it. DieSwartzPunkt (talk) 16:24, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Selsyn

What is a Selsyn? There either needs to be an explanitory note or an article. Mjroots (talk) 18:53, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

It is linked to an article.

"Taffy Bowen had noted that he had significant trouble getting the sets to do anything in the US; in testing against Springfield, Hartford and Boston, the display simply didn't show anything" - perhaps no-one remembered or noticed that the UK mains supply is at 50Hz, whereas in the US it is 60Hz. The equipment taken to the US would have been 50Hz. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.150.18.147 (talk) 10:28, 5 November 2016 (UTC)