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Coat of arms dates in the WW2 era

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I have a couple of questions about the dates and ordering of the WW2-era coats of arms:

  • Given that they're ordered by date of adoption, shouldn't the NDH one site before the Federal State of Croatia one?
  • The Federal State arms are referred in the article of the same name as being those of ZAVNOH, rather than the federal state per se
  • Given that the dating system has the Kingdom of Yugoslavia being terminated in 1941, I wonder if perhaps the Banovina should also be terminated in that year

Xt828 (talk) 04:29, 6 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Actually legally the Kingdom of Yugoslavia (and also Banovina of Croatia) existed until 1943 when it was reformed into communist Yugoslavia. Independent State of Croatia was a puppet state unrecognized by anyone except Axis powers and their puppet states. Basically it is an anomaly in a legal and historic context and is not a successor of previous states or a predecessor of the ones that followed. Shokatz (talk) 23:24, 23 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The crest issue

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DIREKTOR before we start bickering let me point out that I support your incentive with your recent edits. I agree completely that there are numerous issues with the so-called crest. Problem was I didn't know how to introduce these issues in the existing setup...I had great problems how to explain the issue with the Dubrovnik CoA in only one or two sentences in first place... Now Dalmatian CoA is not the only issue. There is also the issue of the Illyrian CoA which is also shown in non-heraldic light blue color...originally this CoA (as I am sure you know) is depicted with a red background, also CoA of Slavonia has the same non-heraldic blue and ofc there is the issue of Dubrovnik/Ragusa CoA which not only is derived from a wrong interpretation but is an interpretation by itself, showing only two instead of four lines. By adding the original historic Dalmatian CoA but omitting others we are unjustly focusing only on one. Also I may be wrong, but I think it also disrupts the aesthetics of the article itself....someone else might come in and add the original Dubrovnik, Slavonia, "Illyrian" CoA and the article would be mess IMO.

Now what I suggest is that we definitely expand the paragraph/section mentioning these issues only passingly (Some of the more traditional heraldic pundits have criticized the latest design for various design solutions, such as adding a crown to the coat, varying shades of blue in its even fields, and adding the red border around the coat.) and that we perhaps add another gallery with the original CoA's from which the ones in the crest are derived. I am sure you have some ideas...let's do something together for once without nonsensical discussion, pretty please. ;) Shokatz (talk) 00:10, 16 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, but I don't see what's wrong with the one sentence I introduced? Both your suggestion as a general point and my sentence specifically pointing out "mouth closed, no tongue, wrong shield colour" seem necessary. If other blunders need pointing out, by all means.. yes, I do know there are numerous blunders [1] ;). Sutej was just dead set on having alternating shades of blue, and by golly, no amount of history was going to dissuade him! :P
Re my adding the new coa of Damatia, I'm fine with you removing it if you feel its out of place. I requested it on COM:GL/I, the good folks there are working on the Venetian version, and a crowned variant. How does the Venetian version look to you, btw? Next I was hoping to have the shield from this coa vectorized. Hopefully that will be simple enough.. I almost did it on Illustrator, but ran into a snag. -- Director (talk) 00:21, 16 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I am curious at why the Dalmatian COA was placed in the history section versus one the other crests. I believe it would be more appropriate in a Dalmatia-related article for various reasons. I'm sure an entire page can be written about the various histories of the COA of Dalmatia, Slavonia, et al. Best to keep it focused with the Croatian state COA. --Jesuislafete (talk) 00:26, 16 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Again, I'm fine with removing it if you folks think its too much. Sutej's silly heraldic blunders are relevant, though. -- Director (talk) 00:28, 16 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The sentence was fine, I was mainly referring to the arms you added....but I think Jesuislafete summed it up. ;) It would be nice though to expand a bit on the controversies on the arms in the crest and to have f.e. another gallery with all the originals from which the arms in the crest are derived...however I am completely clueless how to do that and at the same time make it look at least half-decent. Btw. I like the new Dalmatian arms...the lion/leopard heads remind me of the Strohl's interpretation [2]. Shokatz (talk) 01:36, 16 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well of course, that's the image I posted as the model, did you notice it over there?
To make such a gallery decent you would need to have the coas using the same shield shape... It would be extremely easy to do that for three of them, but Dubrovnik and Slavonia present something of a problem... esp. Dubrovnik, since it requires adding new stripes. I'm pretty good with Photoshop, but lousy with Illustrator. -- Director (talk) 01:51, 16 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No, I don't know what COM:GL/I (??) is...it just reminded me of Strohl's CoA...I told you I am a heraldry buff. ;)
Anyway I could probably make the CoA's using Wappenwiki models, but for that I believe I should then ask permission from the creator and administrator of that site. Shokatz (talk) 22:17, 17 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm.. Maybe I'll tell you some day what that is (*sinister laugh*).
If you can make the proper coas of Dubrovnik and Slavonia on a shield like the ones we have, I'll hopefully be able to handle the rest. It'd be my pleasure to dedicate a section to correcting Sutej's stupidity. Sigh... the Serbs didn't have a talentless hack do their flag and coa, now they own us in that department. I mean look at this [3].. subdued colours, cool Byzantine heraldry true to historical models, coa shifted slightly to the right. Now that's design. -- Director (talk) 01:13, 18 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Uploaded historically-accurate versions of the coats of arms used in the campy crown Shootey introduced. -- Director (talk) 16:34, 24 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I cannot overstate how much I dislike the use of the same models from Sutej for arms of Slavonia and Istria. They look so bad, especially Slavonia with that supposed marten that looks like something out of a cartoon... Shokatz (talk) 17:52, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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Layer in svg file missing

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If you download Coat_of_arms_of_Croatia.svg, one layer is missing, the red and white checkers in the middle 146.159.220.100 (talk) 19:31, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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