Talk:René Magritte

Request

Can someone do clean up the Philosophical and artistic gestures? It's really long-winded. --somesuch

It's a painting of a pipe. I call it abstract surrealism. Since surrealism was based off of freud, along with the conscious interpreation of visual perception, i call it surreal. --Cyberman 21:56, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Here we go again about the "abstract" versus the "representational" branches of surrealism! SURREALISM IS AN ARTISTIC MOVEMENT! so one should not analyse it only in terms of painting. Miró was not an abstract painter. He vehemently denied this and detested "abstract painting." --Daniel C. Boyer

I disagree. Wikipedia currently defines an art movement as "a tendency or style in art with a specific common philosophy or goal, followed by a group of artists during a restricted period of time", which surrealism clearly is, the tendency being towards weirdness. --User2.0

I think that it is fairly undeniable that Surrealism was a movement (cf. the manifestos of Breton, the internal wrangling, etc.). One may be able to interpret it is a non-artistic movement, especially considering its revolutionary politics, but I think that given the program laid out by Breton himself, surrealism is best understood as an artistic movement. Of course, to describe it as simply the tendency "towards weirdness" is to miss most (if not all) of what Surrealism (and certainly Magritte's work) was about (although I am certainly not accusing to previous poster of actually subscribing to such a view!). --shudder 07:24, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)

Title Beneath

"The title of the painting is written beneath it, seemingly a contradiction, but meaning that the image of the pipe is not itself a pipe." As far as I know (limited indeed), 'Ceci n'est pas une pipe' is written below it, not 'The Betrayal of Images', which is the generally accepted title of the work. Perhaps clarification may be worthwhile. Tolo 08:14, Feb 4, 2005 (UTC)

Fixed. --sparkit (talk) 19:08, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

Treachery/Betrayal of Images

Before my edit, the article contained two references to the translation of La trahison des images as The Betrayal of Images and one to The Treachery of Images. I changed the former to conform to the latter. My reasoning (besides the fact that I've always heard of this particular painting referred to as The Treachery... and never The Betrayal...) is that although the French trahison can mean either "betrayal" or "treachery," the two English words have very distinct meanings -- a betrayal is a treacherous action, and "betrayal" without the indefinite article refers to specific treacherous acts being committed, whereas "treachery" is the character trait of being prone to committing such acts -- and Magritte seems to clearly mean that images can be deceptive by their nature, not that images are collectively committing a single act of betrayal. So The Treachery of Images seems to me to be the better translation. Andrew Levine 07:27, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

(A) It seems contextually relevant that, for contemporaries, the title "La trahison des images" would have conjured up that of Julien Benda's 1927 book "La trahison des clercs (The Betrayal of/by the Intellectuals)". (B) As American poet Hannah Weiner has noted [1] and I can confirm, 'une pipe' is also slang for a blow-job. In that sense, Magritte's title is perfectly correct. To add this second sense also points to a treachery of language, from which comparisons between treachery of images and of language might be pursued. (C) In the light of (A), it is significant that to add this slang meaning of 'une pipe' is to shift - right there, in front of the painting in the art gallery - to a non-intellectual plane. (D) Benda opposed leading French philosopher Henri Bergson, for whom images had great epistemological importance.--Wikiain (talk) 23:17, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

It only means a blow-job by derivation from its main meaning, a dick. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.29.100.100 (talk) 22:46, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

The Young Gaze Scents the Festivity of the Old Tree

I have done a web search for this title and couldn't find any matching images. The title however, was mentioned in an article on the website mysanantonio.com. You can visit the article by clicking here. The description in that article seems to match that of a work from 1950 titled The Legend of the Centuries, which already appears in the list. If anyone is familiar with this work they could run an image search for The Legend of the Centuries to see if it is the same. Justin Foote 01:11, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Ban 72.10.122.167

I would like to propose a ban against this IP for vandalism. (Sorry if I can't do that here) BDM1039 01:47, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

The IP address is registered to the University of Connecticut, and has consistently vandalised this and other articles.

Photo additions; disrespectful substitutions for the artists' actual work

Please do not insert your photograph of the article's subject at the top of the page, as was done on 23 November with Henry Moore and René Magritte, without discussing it here on the Talk page. Even if the photograph did show us clearly what the artist looked like, and these do not, such an addition should be discussed here first. The photo caption credit to wikilinked Lothar Wolleh is also troubling, as the Lothar Wolleh article has two lines about the photographer, then approximately 100 wikilinked (most of them red) artists' names, and one external link – to Wolleh's web site.

Beyond the simple addition of such photographs, on 16 November an image of arguably the most famous work of each of these artists was replaced by the same photographs. Please cease this harmful behavior. --CliffC 04:01, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Adding portait of Magritte

Hello everybody, hello CliffC,

I am very new to this forum and I obviously underestimated the complexity of the editing process. I therefore like first of all to apologize that I made things more complicated. I registered now at Wikipedia making myself familiar with the procedures.

Let me respond to CliffC´s comments. I am suggesting to add the portrait of Magritte into the article. This portrait captures significant elements of the work of René Magritte and is in a way toying with his symbolism (the bowler head, suit, curtain). I therefore think that it fits really well into the article corresponding also to the Magritte pictures displayed in the article.

Placing: Since this photo tells us something about the artist I would place it at the beginning of the article but this does not have to be so necessarily because it is a portrait that does not show Magritte´s face. A classical face front foto would be certainly better for encyclopaedic article.

Linking: The linking is not necessary. Particularly because CliffC is right that the current English article on the photographer Wolleh is hardly in an embryonic stage and looks in deed quite strange at the moment. The German version is certainly more developed. I hope the English will develop soon too.

One point I did not understand in your comment CliffC and that is the part regarding the “replacing”. I am not aware to have deleted something or replaced. I inserted the photo to the article but for me this is not a “disrespectful substitution”. The photo I am suggesting to place in the article is not just an ordinary snap-shop like “Magritte entering one of his exhibitions”. It is a portrait-situation authorised by Magritte himself that emerged in a cooperative process between him and the photographer and that was mend to be part of a book.

I hope you find my arguments convincing. Let me state that I will not upload the photo again if we do not reach something like a consensus. Looking forward to your comments. -- SG

I have responded over in Talk:Henry Moore where some discussion of this has already begun. --CliffC 22:59, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

La Grande Famille

Could somebody include a small fair use version of La Grande Famille in this article?--GunnarRene 05:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Copy of other Information

I noticed similarities between this website - www.annlongfineart.com/artists/magritte/ - and the 'life' section of this article. Blubba112 06:17, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

An examination of the edit history of this article shows that it has reached its present form through incremental additions and rewrites by many contributors, so it's safe to say our article is not a plagiarism. It looks like www.annlongfineart.com/artists/magritte/ is using text created in Wikipedia, which would be ok if they referenced Wikipedia as source and showed GFDL. I'll add this to Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks -- thanks! Ewulp 02:35, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Magritte Foundation Link

My browser crashed twice when downloading that site. has anybody else had the same issues? if so, should we note it?--Art 4 Ever 10:09, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

The site seems to be a triumph of ain't-this-cool web design over easily-found content, but it worked for me using Firefox 2.0.0.7 once I figured out where to hover the mouse. Anyone else? --CliffC 17:11, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Belgian Franc

Belgium converted to euros in 2002. Was the Magritte franc issued in 1998 rather than 2008? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.84.72.103 (talk) 00:41, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

It must have been another year. As above poster said, there are no Francs in Belgium since 2002 so it is impossible that there is a 2008 Belgian Franc note. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.8.9.125 (talk) 10:49, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Google homepage

The Google homepage is currently (21st November 0122 GMT) showing a combination of images depicting the work of Magritte (The Son of Man and Golconda) to celebrate his 110th birthday. Could someone update the popular culture section to highlight this fact? Yellhell (talk) 01:22, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Be bold, do it yourself. 205.250.183.223 (talk) 16:05, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Citation Needed Answer

Can someone add this? Its from the Jethro Tull Album: Too Old To Rock and Roll Too Young to Die (1976)The Song: From A Dead Beat To An Old Greaser Lyrics are

From a dead beat to an old greaser, here's thinking of you. You won't remember the long nights; coffee bars; black tights and white thighs in shop windows where blonde assistants fully-fashioned a world made of dummies (with no mummies or daddies to reject them). When bombs were banned every Sunday and the Shadows played F.B.I. And tired young sax-players sold their instruments of torture --- sat in the station sharing wet dreams of Charlie Parker, Jack Kerouac, Ren\'e Magritte, to name a few of the heroes who were too wise for their own good --- left the young brood to go on living without them.

Old queers with young faces --- who remember your name, though you're a dead beat with tired feet; two ends that don't meet. To a dead beat from an old greaser.

Think you must have me all wrong. I didn't care, friend. I wasn't there, friend, If it's the price of pint that you need, ask me again.

Thanks, Kev —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.128.206.7 (talk) 08:56, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

In Popular Culture

The late 1960's early 1970's jazz-rock band Dreams (band) adapted Magritte's Golconda for the cover of their 1970 self-titled album (Label: Scorpio # ASIN: B000005MQK). The faces of the men in the painting were replaced with the faces of band members. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lazarus108 (talk • contribs) 17:42, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Magritte's painting in the gallery

One of the 20th centuries most important Surrealist painters and the modest number of his works seen on this page in the gallery is essential to a better understanding of his body of work..for educational and art historical purposes..Modernist (talk) 21:59, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Currently there is this ongoing discussion:[2] and please keep in mind these discussions have been going on for years..There are shades of differing grays connected to the use of images and galleries. I am not saying all of these images need to be here, however I am defending the concept that visual arts articles need galleries in order to present the subject of the article in a clear and intelligent way. Some things cannot be left only to words...Modernist (talk) 22:18, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Perennial waste of time since it seems consensus will never be achieved one way of the other. I can't get excited about this instance one way or the other. --Rodhullandemu 23:05, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough and I agree it's not worth fighting about...but the arguments continue...Modernist (talk) 23:14, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Removal of gallery

As policy is presently worded, it seems we cannot use fair-use images in galleries, and a discussion here on changing this seems to have stalled. Much as I personally think a selection of images here would be helpful to a reader, as it is it seems permissible to remove them, as there seems to be no particular consensus for discussion on an article-by-article basis. What I have done in some articles (such as Walter Potter) is to link to images on external sites, and I fear for the time being we may be constrained to doing that. --Rodhullandemu 21:45, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Restoration of gallery

I am aware of the controversial mix of opinions and arguments concerning the use of important 20th century works of art after 1923, that are classified as Fair Use. I base my opinions on Common Sense - WP:UCS - and the following opinion from the Wikipedia foundation:

Wikimedia Foundation[3]. Kat Walsh statement.[4]:

Some Wikimedia projects use media that is not free at all, under a doctrine of "fair use" or "fair dealing". There are some works, primarily historically important photographs and significant modern artworks, that we can not realistically expect to be released under a free content license, but that are hard to discuss in an educational context without including the media itself. Because the inability to include these works limits scholarship and criticism, in many jurisdictions people may use such works under limited conditions without having license or permission. Some works that are under licenses we do not accept (such as non-derivative) may meet these conditions. Because of our commitment to free content, this non-free media should not be used when it is reasonably possible to replace with free media that would serve the same educational purpose.

Since individual projects have differing community standards and there are potentially legal issues in different jurisdictions, individual projects may choose to be more restrictive than Foundation policy requires, such as the many projects that do not allow "fair use" media at all. However, no project may have content policies less restricive, or that allow licenses other than those allowed on Wikimedia Commons and limited fair use. Thanks...Modernist (talk) 22:10, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

*sigh*, another example of fair use abuse. This clearly fails the Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria. The statement by Kat Walsh is quite clear. To quote "are hard to discuss in an educational context without including the media". The gallery images are not discussed, they are decorational. Garion96 (talk) 22:22, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree and I disagree with User:Garion96..I know the images are not just decoration (although an argument can be made that all works of visual art are decoration) and I also know that the images should be further discussed specifically in the article..I'm willing to compromise - by making a smaller more essential group in the gallery - say four images..then add text...and text to accompany any other painting will be added. This has worked on other articles...Modernist (talk) 22:30, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

There is no way all the images in the gallery are justified at the moment by the text. I've fitted images to text, where the text exists and there are now four images, which I think are the very maximum currently justified by the existing article to show the range of his work. I suggest the best stratagem is to omit images, until such time as the text demands them. This is currently not a long article. Images can always be replaced. Ty 22:41, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

In theory we are in agreement, although I'd prefer to have left a gallery with 4 images...Modernist (talk) 22:47, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Galleries of non-free images are a lost cause. You've been able to successfully integrate increased text with images elsewhere, and this is what we need to encourage. Note from the statement you've quoted about images "that are hard to discuss in an educational context without including the media itself" (my emphasis). We have to say the rule is: no discussion = no image. I would however dispute that images of an artist's work in an article about the artist can ever, by definition, be purely decoration, as they are always valid information. That doesn't mean they meet wikipedia non-free inclusion requirements as currently practised, however. Ty 23:10, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Zapato Productions Intradimensional website gone belgish

I just want to alert you that the ZPI website is showing the Belgian-like content on it dedicated to the 110th anniversary of Magritte. I will post an image and update the article on it if possible. RYAN 3000 (talk) 23:49, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Popular Culture Omission

Roger Daltrey's solo album One Of the Boys (Roger Daltrey album) features an homage to the Magritte painting Not To Be Reproduced on the cover. 68.191.161.197 (talk) 00:57, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

There are likely to be hundreds of usages of Magritte's work; we cannot include every single time his work has been used or a homage made to it. A few key examples are already in the article, and they already show how pervasive his work was; additional examples are unlikely to add to the quality of the article. Instead, the article will devolve into a random list of the uses of Magritte's work, which doesn't exactly make for quality reading. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 01:06, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Magriite Museum 's opening

It's open today.I have visited and it's mesmerizing.The official opening is the Monday 2 June but the inauguration for the public is today and the intrance for this special occasion is totally free (only today).So If you are in brussels today , don't miss it.--Titi2 (talk) 10:19, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Mistake in reference to military service

{{editsemiprotected}} The article claims that Magritte performed his military service in "Leopoldsberg, Austria" -- this is a mistake. According to the web-site of the Magritte foundation ([5]), Magritte performed his service from December 1920 until September 1921 in the Flemish town of Beverlo near Leopoldsburg -- off by only one letter, but quite a few kilometers. The suggest change is: Remove: "Before they were married, Magritte went overseas to serve in the Belgian infantry in Leopoldsberg, Austria, and Antwerp, Belgium from 1921 to the first half of 1922." Insert: "From December 1920 until September 1921, Magritte served in the Belgian infantry in the Flemish town of Beverlo near Leopoldsburg."

Cparedis (talk) 15:17, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Already done; user Rodhullandemu (talk · contribs) took care of this for you. Celestra (talk) 19:18, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Copyvio on multiple images

I have removed two images that are not used properly here per WP:NFC#UUI item 6 (where the picture has its own article you cannot reproduce the picture in other more general articles but you should link to the wiki article). It's not fair use. There are probably additional pictures here that should be rm per policy. Alanscottwalker (talk) 20:22, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

This page was obviously written by 'academics' but as is often the case, they leave out the most basic information. What type of paint does Magritte use? and what does he paint on? This seems to me to be the obvious starting point for any discussion on his output.86.156.222.34 (talk) 12:33, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Personal Life

This guy didn't have much of a personal life, did he? All it says in this section is "Magritte was an agnostic."

That's it? For his entire life, all he ever did in his off-time was ponder the lack of evidence for God?

He had no family; never married; never worked at any profession other than "artiste"? He had no hobbies or interests other than his work and his doubt about deity? He never owned a house, went to the opera, cultivated any friendships, discoursed or corresponded with other artists? Never expressed a political opinion? No pets?

I think I've made my point: if you're going to have a "personal life" section, then put something in it, eh? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.249 (talk) 00:22, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

prosopagnosia, or face-blindness

Did René Magritte have face blindness? All of his paintings I have seen show the face being covered up. Did he intentionally say he was painting people with prosopagnosia? If so this should be added to the article. Headtransplant (talk) 02:09, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

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