Talk:Gas holder

Current Industry

Why is there no reference to the gasholders that are used in current industry? The rising and falling gasholders are still used, not just the "modern" spheres. 12.183.205.106 (talk) 19:45, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

German article

I just saw the German page contains a lot more info and includes pictures, if someone wants to translate it? My German is not that good, sorry... --Rnbc 23:49, 2005 Jan 1 (UTC)

It's still better than the English article.—Quicksilver^{T @} 22:48, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Problem with opening paragraph

The opening paragraph of this article states

"A gasometer or gas-holder is a large container where natural gas or town gas is stored near normal pressure and temperature."

I would say there needs to be some clarification of 'Normal'.

I've changed it to make it more precise. 'normal pressure and temp' -> 'atmospheric pressure and ambient temps'. --Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 08:48, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Listed buildings

Is there anything to be said about how some gasometers have apparently been listed in the UK as being part of the country's industrial heritage? The article on St Pancras railway station states that gasometers that had to be moved because they were in the path of the Channel Tunnel Rail Link were re-erected nearby. 86.136.0.145 12:34, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

IRA attack?

Didn't the IRA blow up a gasometer in Warrington? The Wikipedia article there doesn't explicitly mention it, but says it was an attack on a "gasworks". Richard W.M. Jones 14:07, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes. They had previously attacked one of the two vast gas holders on the Greenwich Peninsula in SE London in 1978, reported elsewhere on the web as a '25-pump blaze'. This holder was the largest in the world (12.2 million cubic feet) when built in 1891 (reduced to 8.9 following damage by the Silvertown Explosion), and still the largest in England when attacked. Although in the back of beyond, this is right by the southern approach road to the Blackwall Tunnel, so a very spectacular target. Pterre 15:34, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Are gasometers now obsolete in the UK?

Quote:

Gasometers are often a major part of the skylines of low-rise British cities, due to their large distinctive shape and central location. Because they are often located in high-priced areas of cities, some have begun to be converted to living and commercial space.

This raises the question: are gasometers no longer in use in the UK? If not, why not?

Presumably, it would not be possible to convert them into chic apartments and offices if they were still required for their intended purpose, but the article doesn't really address this at all. 217.155.20.163 21:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Gasometers are still used for natural gas pressure equalization in the London area. I can see three of the large structures from my flat in SE London. Frankly, I think that conversion into human use occupation would be impossible because of the highly polluted ground underneath the gas holders. --TGC55 09:26, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I think the 'converted for human use' passage refers to the ones in Vienna: [1] which are large brick structures, not the metal ones common in the UK. I've changed the wording. Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 09:37, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Gas holders are my job. No they are not obsolete. They have many advantages over line packing. User:Mtaylor848

Apparenty however, transco are aiming to phase the out as per. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/264609.stm dhutch (talk) 23:00, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

The linked article was eleven years old even when you quoted it (fourteen, now!). Given the many changes to the political and energy supply landscape in the intervening decade-and-a-bit I don't think a premillennial BBC Mobile News story can count as a reliable source for what's going to happen in our near future.

That said, I don't recall the most prominent ones in the NE region of Birmingham that I commute through having been "inflated" any time I've driven past in recent years. It's quite likely they've switched to linepacking, which with modern pipework is probably at least as safe and far easier to maintain... 193.63.174.211 (talk) 10:33, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Transco no longer really exists its now National Grid Gas (went from Transco to National Grid Transco to National Grid) I have a friend who works for National Grid who told me that they are currently trialing not using the gas holders and instead are storing gas in high pressure pipes but still have gas holders ready if needed, though the plan is to eventually get rid of them. I don't have any sources though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.20.228.47 (talk) 11:39, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

The holder decommissioning program in the UK was completed in 2013. The final holder in use was in Bolton. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.163.21.11 (talk) 16:33, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Is the diagram correct?

I don't think the diagram in the article is correct. It is my impression that water is only used to seal the joints between sections and does not fill a major part of the interior. --GrahamDavies 13:42, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

In this article, it says "The rim of each chamber is sealed by water ...". Note that the diagram in the article offers no explanation of how multi-section gasometers could work. --GrahamDavies 14:01, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I also find the diagram over simplistic. Clearly there is no need for a large pool of water, so no, they dont dig out the middle bit I wouldnt expect. Im stuggling to find a good diagram or explanation at all anywhere, but I assume the priciple is simply repeated for each tier. Excuase my very poor and rushed photo mashing on ms paint, but I belive a more complete/correct diagram would look like this. http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3489/image2cc.jpg dhutch (talk) 23:00, 20 April 2010 (UTC) In reflection, ofcause, the depth of the water in the second teir would be equal to the high of the third. Hence assuming the teirs all equi-height the intermediate teirs would be u-shaped in section the water depth being the same as the height. Confirmation of this however would be excellent. dhutch (talk) 23:03, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

They also use an oil film to seal. User:Mtaylor848

Heading

The article name should be 'Gas Holders' and not 'Gasometer'. Gasholder, or Gas Holder is the technical term. They are in no way refered to as Gasometers by any offical body, (OFGEM, IGEM etc).

Mtaylor848, I totally agree. Was going to suggest that change myself in fact, and I'll support any effort to move it. I work on Gas holders and in all the safety reports, etc., they are "gas holders" or "gasholders". Gasometer is, in almost every respect, wrong. El Pollo Diablo (Talk) 10:55, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I Agree, so I moved it to Gas Holder. Pyrotec (talk) 18:37, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Webster's Dictionary lists "gasholder", and "gasometer", but not "gas holder". The article is currently schizoid about "gas holder" and "gasholder". It should be standardized as "gasholder" and moved to Gasholder, with redirects from Gasometer and Gas holder.—Quicksilver^{T @} 22:53, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Dry Seal "Wiggins" Type Gasholder

This section is so long that I am thinking of making it into a separate article. Please comment. Biscuittin (talk) 21:07, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I assume the "Wiggins" is just one of several types of gas holder? If so, I would invoke "due weight" and cut it back considerably. Whether it needs its own article as well is a separate issue, and one I'm not qualified to take a view on, but to be honest it reads as if it was copied directly from commercial promotional material and is therefore of dubious encyclopedic value anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.44.213.14 (talk) 23:44, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Why is it called "Wiggins"? There are no references to this effect. In the German WP article, I believe this type of gasholder is called a "disk gasholder" (Scheibengasbehälter), and that article states that it was developed by the German firm MAN and patented in 1913; the first example of this type was built at the Augsburg Gasworks in Germany in 1915. There is no mention of "Wiggins" anywhere in the entire article. There is but a single instance of "MAN gasholder" in the English article, in the caption of one of the images, but no explanation of what the term means. I'm betting that the MAN gasholder and Wiggins gasholder are one and the same thing. Is this another example of expropriation of German technology without credit to the inventors following one of the World Wars?—Quicksilver^{T @} 19:30, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Wiggins type gasholder is fundamentally different from an MAN as it uses a rubber seal rather than the head of oil/tar in an MAN holder. It is much later. Try US patent 2785285 by John H. Wiggins, 19th March 1957. I guess this is where the name comes from. (Will ad more to this page if I have time) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.8.104.65 (talk) 09:54, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

There are/were, in fact two classes of Gasholders/Gasometers, water-sealed and dry-sealed. The water-sealed variants are multi- level structures that rise and fall as gas is admitted or removed. The "Wiggins" holder is one example of a dry-sealed gasholder, the other type being the "MAN" holder. These use two different sealing methods, the "Wiggins" uses a flexible membrane inside the outer casing, the "MAN" holder uses a viscous liquid seal around the edge of the enclosed piston. In the United Kingdom this viscous liquid is a solution of bitumen/tar in an organic solvent. There are two "MAN" type gasholders in the London area, one at Battersea, the other at Southall. The latter has a viewing gallery at the top, which used to be open to the public, but was closed some years ago. 78.149.187.100 (talk) 02:58, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Definitely in favor of drastic reduction of this section. If you think its importance is proportional to it's length, you should probably find it worthwhile to give it it's own article to live in. Winston Spencer (talk) 21:20, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Famous tanks in NYC

Hey there, I'm in the process of cleaning up a few references to a couple of these in NYC, specifically, there's a set of rising/falling tanks, and a set of "fixed" tanks in NYC that are often confused with each other. My question is: how does one refer to the "fixed" tanks? They're still holders. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gushi (talk • contribs) 00:10, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Name origin

I wonder ... maybe the inventor had a point? Even if not a very good one.

Thought one: The structure itself acts as a "meter" displaying how much gas is currently stored within, if you put marks on the side corresponding to the internal volume at that extension (and so, at a standard pressure and with allowance for ambient temperature, the actual mass), much like the internal workings of a regular gauge but without the needle part attached.

Thought two: It allows easier metering of the gas supply, both in the measurement sense (my domestic gas meter only counts cubic metres, and takes no account of what pressure they're supplied at), and in the supply sense (metering it out, at a relatively even pressure).

How likely does this one seem? :) 193.63.174.211 (talk) 10:37, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

World's Largest Copyrighted Work

I just read that the gas holder owned by National Grid in the Dorchester section of Boston, MA is the largest copyrighted work in the world. The design, by former nun Corita Kent, is four differently colored bands (red, blue, green, and brown) with ragged-looking ends on a white background, giving the appearance of having been applied by a gigantic brush. It's a local landmark mentioned in radio traffic reports on the often congested nearby Southeast Expressway, I-93.
☺ Dick Kimball (talk) 15:44, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Lots of useful info on UK gas holders...

...in this BBC News article published today. Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 08:57, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Copy editing?

Is there a consensus on whether it is a gas holder or gasholder? --ClemRutter (talk) 19:49, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

What ever was first the WP:ENGVAR is ought to determine it, because it is likely that this is similar to many other words where the Americans tend to concatenate them while the British do not. See for example MOS:COMPASS. -- PBS (talk) 17:43, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

We should stick with two words, per the title, but note that some places use "gasholder" as one word as part of their name, and one word is also used in some newspaper article we've referenced - those shouldn't be changed. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 17:52, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

tallest in the world?

So when Oberhausen is the tallest in Europa - which one is the tallest altogether? --2.247.240.193 (talk) 13:10, 3 November 2018 (UTC)