Talk:Mayhem (band)

Out From The Dark..

..Is not an official Mayhem album. just putting it out there that i put it in the compilation albums list cos even though its an official release by Mayhem it is not an official album. For the simple reason that it wasnt even released on cd, only on LP. Plus it is always noted that the only official release by the band with Dead on vocals is the Freezing Moon single, released in 1996. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Okram 09 (talk • contribs) 01:50, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Out from the Dark is indeed an official album, as clearly stated on the band's own website. That it was only released on vinyl is neither here nor there... this is something that many metal bands do. It is certainly not "always noted" that the "Freezing Moon" single is the only official release to feature Dead on vocals, as again stated on the official Mayhem website. Aside from Out from the Dark, there is also Live in Leipzig for instance. Finally, Out from the Dark is not actually a compilation, so should remain where it is. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 10:31, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

True that its on the bands website, and thats without a doubt, but wouldnt it seem odd to you that evry "album" (even deathcrush) except out from the dark was released on cd? its cos its just a compilation album. they were proper recordings on it, as it was basically the early version of De mysteriis dom sathanas. and it is noted on the bands website that it was only released on vinyl. in addition, the dawn of the black hearts is a bootleg, and shouldnt be noted as a live album, and the cd shouldnt be there. people only want it to be a live album cos of the infamous picture of dead on the front cover. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Okram 09 (talk • contribs) 03:18, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Firstly, many many bands release albums exclusively on vinyl... I don't understand why you find this unusual, or indeed why it should be relevant. Secondly, I suspect that the Dawn of the Black Hearts bootleg may well be independently notable, precisely because of coverage it has received because of that picture. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 17:37, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Crowley/LaVey

Although the spelling of "Euronymous" was taken from the Satanic Bible, I thought he expressed contempt for both Crowley and LaVey. The Satanic influences came from other sources, such as notably the holy bible; "For serious information about real Satanism read the Holy Bible and forget the goodness of LaVey and his life-worshipping followers." See here , here —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.156.150.7 (talk • contribs) 16:40, 29 July 2006 (UTC).

That's what I'm lead to believe as well XdiabolicalX 18:17, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

What a concidence --83.70.106.119 23:04, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I'm rephrasing that part in the article.

Real names?

Can't we find some real names for any of these guys? I mean, c'mon - Count Grishnakh?

- Jaochai

Count Grishnakh's real name is Varg Vierkines (sp?) he is also in the one man band Burzum

On the topic of Black Metal musicians being known by their pseudonyms, read Talk:Ofermod (band). --217/83 22:54, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Nomenclature

Both "Mayhem" and "Mayhem (musical group)" should be redirects to "Mayhem (band)" to maintain clarity on the issue. All wiki pages regarding bands should have the "(band)" suffix for specificity.

Nyght 18:21, May 22, 2004 (UTC)

Origin of 'DMDS' title?

According to some interviews with Dead, he seemed to believe 'De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas' is an actual ancient book. Was it ever mentioned in other sources, or was he inspired by the Necronomicon or De Vermis Mysteriis?

It seems to have been a book he owned and lost. Don’t know more about that either, unfortunately, although I know Mayhem (true, i. e. with Euronymous) pretty well. --217/83 22:54, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Can this be checked

I think that Blasphemer real name is Rune Erickson and not Rune Eriksen as it says in the article. This can be verified on
Official Mayhem site, in metal-archives and on several other sites. Interesting part is that on BNR Mezzerschmitt article says Erickson, but on BNR Mayhem says Eriksen??? What the fuck! Please respond with your thoughts, comments and words of enlightement! Death2 01:56, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Erickson also on allmusic and discogs. Death2 11:16, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

On both Ava Inferi's albums (his side project) he is listed as Rune Eriksen. See also Ava Inferi. --NorthernDrifter (talk) 23:55, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Maniac's Departure

"This frustrated his bandmates and it is rumored that Necrobutcher signaled his departure from Mayhem by kicking him down a flight of stairs after he (Maniac) had gotten drunk before a gig and was unable to remember the lyrics."

Can someone get a source for this, it doesn't seem like something Necrobutcher would do, from what I know of him he seems a rather nice, un-violent bloke. I also read in various publications that Maniac left as he was not interested in touring to the extent of which Mayhem tour and I have never once heard of him suffering from stage fright, why would he be a singer in the first place? And he is now also in a punk band which again you wouldn't do if you had stage fright.--XdiabolicalX 19:48, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Another thing I just noticed Dead didn't kill himself in the basement of Helvete. He did it in a hut at the back of a cabin type house where the band was living at the time.--XdiabolicalX 22:28, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

There's an excellent article at [1] which states that it was Blasphemer (not Necrobutcher) who kicked Maniac down the stairs (as well as smashing his face into a wall a couple of times). The article includes an interview with Necrobutcher, in which he says "Blasphemer actually came and asked my permission beforehand." He then confirmed the part about Maniac's stage fright. The interview was done during Mayhem's 2005 tour of Norway, which would seem to indicate they are not currently banned there (as questioned above). --Geemarcus 18:51, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I have read about this, but in the web site, they say some stuff about thanking Maniac for all the time he was in the band and they were going to miss him, etc., check the site for that.Wayavas1337 20:18, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

The 'True' Mayhem

Is 'The True Mayhem' title mentioned in the opening statment just the name of the official website rather than an AKA? Some crowd know as 'Mayhem Communications' are loking for, ahem, $750,000 for use of mayhem.com. Coil00 02:22, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

No the band called themselves the true mayhem to distinguish from a few other small bands calling themselves mayhem that they felt were unworthy of the name. Think it explains that on the burzum official site if not the mayhem one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.172.251.98 (talk) 22:10, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Dawn of the Blackhearts

Dawn of the Blackhearts was not released by their record label against Euronymous's will as the article states. It was a bootleg that had the blessings of the band. This article is in need of some serious fact checking. Euronymous originally intended to use the cover picture from Dead's suicide scene as the cover for DMDS. Necrobutcher objected to this, as he was a close friend of Dead, and that was the reason he left the band prior to the recording of DMDS. Since the image was not used as the DMDS cover, it was used as the cover to Dawn of the Blackhearts

Bias

The opening paragraph of this article is ridiculously biased

--203.114.179.177 06:45, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Reunited musical groups?

When has Mayhem ever really not been a band? If one is to take their "hiatus'" into account then the band is barely a band. Even after the death of Euronymous they continued. -- Death666 17:38, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

They spilt up for about 4 years between Euronymous' death and the release of Wolf's Lair Abyss, as Hellhammer was the only member left, Attila being a session musician only. Diabolical 18:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Demos

This mythical "Voice of a Tortured Skull" demo should probably be removed. It's highly doubtful it even exists; note it's not even mentioned on the official site discography which is quite comprehensive. In any case it's certainly not an official demo, and I'd challenge anyone to prove otherwise with pictorial or interview evidence.

Most people try to rationalize the existence of this "demo" by claiming the mixed/unmixed sides of "Pure Fucking Armageddon" were previously available as seperate tapes. But there's no evidence that any such demos exist. The band sent Metal Forces magazine a press kit (see the original "PFA" demo review in one of the early issues) and this demo is not mentioned in the brief band bio the reviewer did.

thetruemayhem.com hijacked...

Obviously, if you take a look at http://www.thetruemayhem.com the Mayhem site isn't there anymore. Probably some lazy webadmin who hasn't been paying the bills in time. People's incompetence is shocking... ;) Guess they won't get that domain back now, unless they come up with a lot of cash to buy it back. Now, does anyone have an alternative site address, or some info on what's going on? --Unsound 09:10, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Never mind, found the site at http://www.moonfrost.net/mayhem/ ... I updated the address in the article. --Unsound 09:17, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

http://www.thetruemayhem.com is back online. --Unsound 12:06, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

is this a joke?

"most extreme metal fans (as well as critics) consider the group the greatest metal band in history" i'm continually amazed at the nonsense that is accepted into articles on this site. does anyone actually believe that mayhem, or any individual band, would be regarded as the greatest metal band in history by more than 50% of "extreme" metal fans? 123.3.22.207 09:04, 24 April 2007 (UTC)Liam

Yeh this line really annoyed me as well, no citation, very impartial, almost certainly not true. Personally I don't know any black metal fans that consider Mayhem the greatest band, in fact a large number of them think they're rubbish, but it's not really relevant to the article anyway.86.144.56.33 10:51, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

The problem with this kind of claim is that black metal is divided between elitists, who will turn their backs to a band for making an album that sounds different than the old style, or that has good production and doesn't sound like it was recorded an a bathtub with a $10 computer microphone (this isn't hyperbole, people really do think that the production should be kept unclear and muddy,) and to give a relevant example, criticized Euronymous for being too technical and proficient in his solos, and fans who aren't so extreme. The less extreme ones tend to be the Mayhem fans. I removed everything after "... widely considered to be one of the cornerstones of the black metal movement," because that is indisputable fact rather than the "greatest bands of all time" argument that, in my opinion, has no place in an encyclopedia. GWBBQ 18:28, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

It really depends on how you define greatest. Not technically, but people who know where Black Metal came from (which is not a question of musical aspects) give Mayhem (true, i. e. with Euronymous) and Euronymous as Black Metal’s father the deserved respect. But I never heard of anyone who “criticized Euronymous for being too technical and proficient in his solos”. --217/83 22:54, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Mayhem Logo.png

Image:Mayhem Logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 23:07, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Done/ ≈ Maurauth ^{(nemesis~☆)} 15:10, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Recurring Vandalism

A quick glance at the IP address and recent acts of vandalism leads me to believe that 67.171.111.19 should be send a warning or blocked from editing. -- Branko 02:58, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

You can leave him a warning yourself on his talk page by writing {{subst:Uw-vandalism1}} on his page to display:

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although we invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia, at least one of your recent edits was not constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you.

Increase the number in the tag to uw-vandalism2, or higher for further warnings, for example:

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia. Your edits appear to be vandalism and have been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you.

Please stop. If you continue to vandalize Wikipedia, you will be blocked from editing.

This is your last warning. The next time you vandalize Wikipedia, you will be blocked from editing.

≈ Maurauth ^{(nemesis~☆)} 15:10, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Hellhammer's arm

hellhammer had his armed injured so the american tour was cancelled.

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=74966

1983 or 1984?

Check the interview references, there is one where Euronymous said MayheM was formed in 1983...with Necrobutcher.Wayavas1337 18:20, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Dawn of the Black Hearts bootleg first release

Refering to the official Mayhem website, the Dawn of the Black Hearts bootleg was first released in 1995. Wikipedia says 1991, but I think it's inaccurate. I'd like to add Mayhem website is an almost exhaustive and quite reliable source.

So guys, do you think too it's better to rely on official Mayhem info? Od1n 02:45, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Up for deletion

This page: A Tribute to The Black Emperors is up for deletion. Travb (talk) 07:34, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Mayhem Logo.png

Image:Mayhem Logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 18:06, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Mayhem current lineup.jpg

Image:Mayhem current lineup.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 18:08, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

What happened to the official Mayhem - Website?

Does anyone have an idea? www.thetruemayhem.com doesn't exist anymore —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.58.93.114 (talk) 18:17, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Gayhem

"Gayhem" redirects to this article. Not my kinda music, so anyone here know if Mayhem is ever called that? Looks like vandalism to me but thought I'd check before tagging it. — FIRE!^{in a crowded theatre...} 20:07, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Need something clarified

Did Blasphemer leave Mayhem? He is listed as both a current and a fromer member, yet it states that he decicded to leave the band in april 2008. If this is so, then shouldn't he be listed as only a former member, not as both. Svartasmeden (talk) 17:11, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

I apologize for the justified confusion. Mayhem, with Blasphemer on guitar, performed in mid '08 after Blasphemer had announced his departure from the band. Posts on the band's web page citing late '08/early '09 touring plans and lacking any mention of a new guitarist seemed to indicate that Blasphemer, though no longer an official member, would be performing on these tours - hence the confusion regarding the lineup listings. Morfeus has since been announced as the group's touring guitarist, indicating Blasphemer's definitive departure, and the listings have been changed to reflect this. I hope that clears everything up. Colinclarksmith (talk) 22:08, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Issue of new era in 'Members' wikitable; new section of history bio

I see there is some controversy regarding the addition of a new "era" (ie, 2008-present) to the band member wikitable (not to be confused with the List of Mayhem band members) to mark the departure of Blasphemer. I, for one, favor the addition of this listing.

I agree that Morfeus is something of a dubious addition, as he is at present only a touring guitarist. However, this point is invalid regarding his non-inclusion for two reasons - 1.) Both Attila (in what is listed as his '92-'93 stint) and Grishnahck were temporary members at the time of their involvement in the band and are included in the chart, and 2.) Blasphemer's departure, importantly, indicates the end of a long era for the band, as they are losing a key member - specifically, the credited musical composer of their three most recent albums. I am planning on altering the band's bio in the main article by concluding the Ordo Ad Chao chapter with Blasphemer's departure and beginning a new one (which, of course, will have little content until future events unfold.) I will do this in the next few days - please alert me to any feelings or thoughts you have on the matter. Colinclarksmith (talk) 22:21, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

To put it simply, the members table is not for touring members, hence Messiah and Nordgarden aren't included. Right now, Morfeus has been recruited solely for the South American tour. Should he record an album with the band in future, he can be added to the table. ~Asarlaí 22:48, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough. Nonetheless, I do plan on altering the band's biographical history section to reflect Blasphemer's departure, as I feel it is significant enough to warrant a new chapter (as did Maniac's departure.) Colinclarksmith (talk) 22:53, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Founding date and article references

Amusing.

First note: # ^ TheTrueMayhem.com interview (here Euronymous states band was formed in 1983)

Second note: # ^ Euronymous' final words, a screenshot

In the second, Euronymous states band was formed in 1984. Let the corpse-painted arguments begin. - It doesn't stick. (talk) 21:06, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

On post-1994 Mayhem not playing Black Metal

I explained my actions both in the summary and, as people seem to need additional explanation, I had an argument on my talk page, where I explained my point, including sources; see User talk:H. 217.83#Genre changes and User talk:H. 217.83#Mayhem. I can reproduce the main content here if people are too lazy to click onto the link. --217/83 22:54, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Be careful, lest you become a genre warrior. Major sources ranging from the BBC to major magazines like Decibel to the band themselves use the term 'black metal' to describe their post-1995 output. It's important not to guard too closely a static definition of a musical sub-genre, especially in the context editing Wikipedia – judgments of 'true' and 'false' should not factor into a non-normative encyclopedia like this one. And although genres can often be controversial, asserting Mayhem (even post-'95) to be a black metal band is as close to objective truth as any claim regarding extreme rock. Colinclarksmith (talk) 06:15, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

You know that “[m]ajor sources” tend to be either ignorant or wrongly call something “Black Metal” only for commercial reasons (therefore, commercial media’s reliability is often to be doubted, a point brought up several times on the German project’s talk pages, when reliability was discussed), don’t you?

Writing something like “[i]t's important not to guard too closely a static definition of a musical sub-genre” is extremely problematic, especially since Black Metal is not a musical genre. I expect you to know that first wave bands like Venom and Mercyful Fate had nothing in common musically, nor did second wave bands like Rotting Christ, Mayhem and Archgoat; yet they were considered Black Metal bands due to their Satanic background. Non-Satanic bands used other terms back then, because their music was and is therefore not Black Metal (I have already explained this on the Black Metal talk page and contributed sources to the article). To quote Emperor drummer Faust: “Some people misunderstand Black Metal and think it is the music which decides whether it is Black Metal or not. They believe it is Black Metal as long as the guitars are non down tuned, the vocals are screamy and the productions is bad. I shall admit that this is the typical sound of some Black Metal bands. But that doesn't necessary [sic!] mean it's got to be like this if it is to be Black Metal. Bands like BLASPHEMY, DEATH SS, MAYHEM, MERCYFUL FATE, are all Black Metal bands, and musically they are different as day night and day [sic!] (well, almost at least).” (Emperor. In: Jon Kristiansen: Metalion: The Slayer Mag Diaries. Brooklyn, NY: Bazillion Points Books 2011, p. 274.) But even people who believe Black Metal to be a musical genre should (and, according to my experience, do) see that Grand Declaration of War is no Black Metal album. At least outside this project.

I also looked for a few comments on post-1994 Mayhem by Metalion, that I doubt to be rejected:

• “Anyway, the first real chapter of Northern Black Metal is over and let's hope there will be no reforming of MAYHEM, that would not be right...........” De Mysteriis Dom Euronymous. In: Jon Kristiansen: Metalion: The Slayer Mag Diaries, p. 282.
• “Well, I must say that I was one of those persons who was rather sceptic when it was known that t [sic!] MAYHEM should go on even without Dead or Euronymous. Finally I can leave that period of time behind me.” Mayhem. In: Jon Kristiansen: Metalion: The Slayer Mag Diaries, p. 477.
• “Because there was a lot of people that said we should break up when Euronymous was killed, and it was also a lot of people who meant that we should break up when Dead killed himself.” Mayhem. In: Jon Kristiansen: Metalion: The Slayer Mag Diaries, p. 480. This one is by Necrobutcher, the other ones by Metalion himself, who knew Euronymous and Necrobutcher since 1985 and considered Euronymous to have been his best friend (see Euronymous article if you want references for that information).
• “We have to stop here and now and hopefully there will be a part II of this interview somewhere in the next issue. Perhaps we will then talk about how such an anti Christian band as MAYHEM defend the fact that their drummer Hellhammer had a Christian wedding? And how that can ruin the credibility of the band? Who knows? You might find that out in the next SLAYER, but we might speak about other subjects as well.” Mayhem. In: Jon Kristiansen: Metalion: The Slayer Mag Diaries, p. 481.

And believing this project to be “a non-normative encyclopedia” rather seems like some dreaming of yours. --217/83 17:56, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Give that Wikipedia:GENRE WARRIOR article a read : ) Colinclarksmith (talk) 18:41, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

I have already clicked onto that link before you got on my nerves with this useless comment. On the contrary, I wonder if you have even read one paragraph of my reply; if yes, you ignore history documented in old fanzines, Metalion’s book etc. And if you had taken a look at my other edits, you would know I don’t spend most of my time “altering the genre field of music infoboxes or the genre categories”; in the case of Mayhem, as explained on my user talk page, I have also added information, corrected footnotes, etc., but you people seem to ignore that while focusing on that “genre warrior” tag. I won’t accept any assumption that my main activity is something close to vandalism. --217/83 19:38, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

That black metal is not a music genre is utterly absurd on the face of it. There are plenty of genres where we can point to bands that sound (to some degree or other) dissimilar), but that doesn't make them less of a genre. What you are proposing is a change purely in line with your POV (and possibly that of other "kvltists"). We have dozens of sources stating that post-1994 Mayhem is black metal; even the quotes from Slayer Mag above don't back up your assertion. Your argument is dead in the water. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 13:09, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Wrong. I am not only referring to my own point of view (or that of “other ‘kvltists’”, as you put it; I feel no need to react on that term, I don’t give a crap on whether you call me a “kvltist” or not); as stated numerous times, bands totally different (which somebody only knowing the average “it is Black Metal as long as the guitars are non down tuned, the vocals are screamy and the productions is bad” definition (see the quote above) wouldn’t classify as Black Metal, but both underground fanzines and commercial magazines did in the past and probably still do) were considered Black Metal bands due to their Satanic background, whereas Non-Satanic bands used other terms back then (and denying this historical background is what is truly absurd). Give Rotting Christ and Archgoat a listen, and you will see they had a style not fitting the average musical definition (same goes for the first wave, which is why I referred to Venom and Mercyful Fate above). And I gave you the Slayer quotes not because of the Black Metal classification, but the whole controversy around post-1994 Mayhem (which was the other reason for my edits), showing one and the same person taking several different positions as time went on, and Slayer is an excellent source. So don’t tell me about dead arguments. Before your post, I had actually considered to suggest a consensus showing that commercial media etc. still call post-1994 Mayhem a Black Metal band whereas this is a controversial topic in the underground, as is the whole post-1994 band, but I still need to provide references for that. But the way you and Colinclarksmith react doesn’t actually motivate me to do so. --217/83 15:58, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and generally, as I'm sure you're aware, underground fanzines pretty much never pass WP:RS. Remember that Wikipedia is about verifiability (i.e. in sources that pass WP:RS), not "truth". In another, unrelated note, can you please stop altering quotation marks, generally across WP? It contravenes MOS:PUNCT. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 14:17, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

As far as I know, reliable has a somehow similar meaning to trustworthy, which I doubt to apply to quite a few of your so-called “reliable sources”. And I might add that I didn’t write “documented in old fanzines”, but “documented in old fanzines, Metalion’s book etc.”; just mentioning two examples and not explicitly excluding everything else (and after all the bullshit I had to read here and on my talk page, it is no surprise it was read that way). And yes, I can; this was clear enough, but I am not perfect, so if I forget, don’t make a scandal out of it. --217/83 15:58, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

"Reliable" as far as WP is concerned means something rather diffferent to its everyday meaning; I have linked repeatedly before, but if you haven't done so already, please read WP:RS. It explains quite clearly why fanzines (and in its modern version, fan sites and webzines) fail the necessary criteria. Regarding what classifies as black metal, this a very, very old argument, which should really be taken to a forum, not an article talk page. There is no hard and fast authority on what qualifies as a musical genre, and hence POV is inevitable. You believe all black metal mustmustmust be Satanic; others disagree. Finally, regarding the "bullshit" you have encountered, can I refer you to WP:CIVIL. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 18:09, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

You (plural, referring to both Blackmetalbaz’ and Colinclarksmith’s replies) ignore the definition I refer to has been around long before the one you refer to and dismiss it as “absurd” without seeming to know about the subculture’s history, you seem not to have read my posts properly (there were two points I referred to, the question whether post-1994 Mayhem plays Black Metal and the controversy, but you weren’t even able to associate the Slayer quote to the latter), etc. and believe you have to tell me about civility? What a sick joke. And I guess you actually were surprised by my reaction to the term reliable in connection to the guidelines you linked to (my logical reaction to a term being used in a sense “rather diffferent to its everyday meaning” here). --217/83 19:24, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

This is increasingly like a forum argument. Re: is there any controversy regarding latterday Mayhem, certainly. Is it notable? No, not really, in the absence of rather more than you have currently provided. I maintain that you are POV-pushing (it is fairly obvious what your opinion is, whereas I prefer to leave my opinions far from Wikipedia). Re: your definition of what is and is not black metal, I suggest you take it up elseweb. If it is simply heavy metal played by Satanists, then it has been argued (in the pages of Terrorizer for example) that Danzig qualify whilst Venom do not. Go figure ;-) I do not mean to perpetuate the argument, simply to point out that actually there is no One True Gold Standard as to what black metal is that everyone can agree upon. I maintain that I am being civil, but am struggling to find comments like "without seeming to know about the subculture’s history" within those same realms of civility. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 21:55, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Guess why “[t]his is increasingly like a forum argument“. Yes, I have an obvious opinion, but I have stated repeatedly that my edits aren’t only about pushing my point of view, but also about contributing information I consider to be a notable part of the post-1994 history (I have already stated this in one of my replies on my talk page). And I don’t consider my quoted reaction to the impression you leave to be any less civil than your assumptions. --217/83 22:13, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, H. 217.83, a neutral article is attained by synthesizing material that has attained consensus via reliable sources (e.g., major media outlets). One which presents esoteric views in arcane sources (e.g., fanzines, your own convictions) fails WP:NPOV, regardless of your opinion of the source. I won't take a side regarding its validity, but your argument requires rejecting the paradigm favored by the overwhelming majority for an alternative, controversial, and ambiguous one. This is a noble project to be pursued elsewhere (hence Blackmetalbaz's suggestion that this be taken to a forum), but it simply has no place on Wikipedia. Colinclarksmith (talk) 22:26, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Have you noticed that I added quotes by Metalion both against post-1994 Mayhem and accepting this phase? Would I have done this if my edits were about POV-pushing? No, I wouldn’t. See above: “Before your post, I had actually considered to suggest a consensus showing that commercial media etc. still call post-1994 Mayhem a Black Metal band whereas this is a controversial topic in the underground, as is the whole post-1994 band, but I still need to provide references for that. But the way you and Colinclarksmith react doesn’t actually motivate me to do so.” Same goes for the post-1994 controversy in general, which you seemed to have forgotten about when I wrote this. --217/83 22:39, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Infobox photo

someone can upload a photo wich features all, or most of the bands members, that would be better than just the singer. Nicrorus (talk) 03:47, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Mayhem (band)

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Mayhem (band)'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "soundsofdeath":

• From Euronymous: Sounds of Death magazine (1998): Hellhammer interview
• From De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas: Dan Zimmer: Interview with Hellhammer taken from Sounds Of Death Magazine.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 14:52, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Mayhem (band)

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Mayhem (band)'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "LoC120":

• From Early Norwegian black metal scene: Lords of Chaos, p. 120.
• From Varg Vikernes: Lords of Chaos (2003), p.120.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 08:58, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Guest and session members

Consulting Encyclopedia Metallum I realised that not every Mayhem's can be defined official, thus I made a new section called Former session members: it includes, according to Metal Archives itself, Varg Vikernes and Snorre Ruch, playing bass guitar and rhythm guitar respectively in De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas; vocalists Messiah and Maniac (only in 1987, then from 1994 to 2004 served in the band as lead singer); drummer Torben Grue (Metal Archives reports he filled TEMPORARILY the drummer position); vocalist Kittil Kittilsen (he was in the band only for a few time, as like as Torben Grue was, still according to Encyclopedia Metallum); Occultus, recruited by Euronymous to record vocals/bass tracks in Mayhem's debut album after Necrobutcher's Dead suicide-related departure, and Dead's death itself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.233.174.108 (talk) 19:04, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Experimental metal

i added experimental metal to the genres,acording this ref:{ } i found in the Experimental metal page and the Allmusic review of At the heart of winter album by Immortal,which notes that Mayhem (band) is Experimental: i had forgotten to "sign my post" --GREYBOYY (talk) 18:58, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

References

Rescued from Daemon (Mayhem album)

'''Track list:'''<br> 1.Dying False King<br> 2.Agenda Ignis<br> 3.Bad Blood<br> 4.Malum<br> 5.Falsified and Hated<br> 6.Aeon Daemonium<br> 7.Worthless Abominations Destroyed<br> 8.Daemon Spawn<br> 9.Of Worms and Ruins<br> 10.Invoke the Oath<br> <ref>https://www.thetruemayhem.com/2019/08/12/album-title-tracklist-cover-announced/</ref> It's a redirect. Jerod Lycett (talk) 17:34, 28 December 2019 (UTC)