Talk:Åland

Paf (company) link

Paf Masters is linked in the text, and names the sponsor of the annual bonspiel-women's curling tournament. No issues with that. But does Paf (company) really also deserve a separate link, in the "See also" section? It's a commercial concern and this might be viewed as promotional? Thanks. 205.239.40.3 (talk) 12:21, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

I agree that it shouldn't be in "See also", but I suggest another approach: as an independently notable operation with strong ties to the article subject, it may deserve a mention in the article text itself, like how we give a brief mention to Ålandsbanken. And as Paf is state-owned, it feels even more appropriate. Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 17:58, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done I went ahead and moved it to the article text. Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 22:15, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Seems sensible. Thanks. 205.239.40.3 (talk) 08:05, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes it deserves a link as one of the notable operations based in Åland. TylerBurden (talk) 11:12, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Pronunciation length

I agree with this edit that the pronunciation in the lead is too long; however, per WP:LEADPRON, something should be there, especially since I'm guessing most English speakers don't know how to pronounce Å. My suggestion is to remove the Swedish and leave the two local pronunciations, Finland Swedish and Finnish. Or, if it can be shown that the Swedish pronunciation is more dominant locally, then keep that. But not both. Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 21:30, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

I think we agree, at least in principle, that there's room for improvement here. I read the WP:LEADPRON guidance to suggest that one or zero is the right amount of alternative pronunciations, but certainly not three. "It is preferable to move pronunciation guides to a footnote or elsewhere in the article if they would otherwise clutter the first sentence." Since most Alanders speak Swedish and not Finnish as their first language, (see Languages of Aland) I would suggest going with only that language. CUA 27 (talk) 22:30, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Right, and by Swedish I assume you mean Sweden Swedish and not Finland Swedish? I know that Åland Swedish is closer to Sweden Swedish, and we have sources for that, but I'm really hoping to hear from a more involved editor if possible. Finally, we should still include Ahvenanmaa in the lead, it still being literally part of Finland, but I don't think we need a pronunciation for that. Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 22:50, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

I am a Swedish speaker, "Åland" is pronounced the same way it is in Sweden Swedish by people in Åland from what I know having both spoken with a person from there and just watched a few example videos. Here is a Youtube video by Åland's parliament interviewing young Ålanders, where you can see that the way they pronounce Åland is like the Swedish audio sample in the lead. Therefore I agree with keeping that version, the audio sample is particularly useful. TylerBurden (talk) 11:19, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! I trimmed the Finland Swedish, left the Sweden Swedish, and per my reading of WP:LEADLANG, retained Ahvenanmaa (name only, not the pronunciation). Regards, Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 23:09, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Comment on the main map in infobox

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  The main map in the infobox
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  File on fr.wiki

Considering both the geographical location (seems to be just about at the middle of the sea) and historical links, wouldn't it be useful for spatial perspective to include a part of eastern coast of Svealand in neighbouring Sweden into the main map? It would require only a minor expansion of the map coordinates towards the west. MirkoS18 (talk) 19:19, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

My view is that a lot of locations have a lot of historical links with neighboring regions and we shouldn't optimize for that. However, if it's deemed to be a good idea, someone will have to make a new SVG altogether; it's not possible to just adjust the bounding box of the current view. Another option is to use Template:Location_map to show just Finland by default and then allow the user to zoom out to all of Scandinavia, but I'm not sure if that's better than what we have now. Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 02:29, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

You are right about many regions, but my proposal is not that comprehensive. I propose nothing general, no some new policy, just something particular in this case. Right now the frame seems (and I of course have no any evidence for this, just my impression) to intentionally cut the map just short. This may create somewhat wrong impression that the archipelago is just next to the Finnish coast with open sea behind it while in fact it is just in the middle with both coasts at approximately equal distance. I don't really think that the map of the entire Scandinavia of Fennoscandia is the only alternative. French Wikipedia for example uses the map that catches just a bit of Svealand, although just a bit more would be even better; see: File:Ahvenanmaa in Finland.svg.--MirkoS18 (talk) 06:37, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

I added the two maps mentioned above. I'm similarly wary of optimizing for a specific individual case. Looking at the general case, there seem to be two sets of maps, Commons:Category:SVG locator maps of regions in Finland (location map scheme) with English names ("in Finland"), and Commons:Category:SVG locator maps of regions of Finland (location map scheme) with Finnish names ("sijainti Suomi"), although some of the English named files are also in the second category. At a quick glance, both sets of maps are internally consistent, with the Finnish files being slightly more tightly cropped. Neither appears to have equidistant gaps on opposite sides/all four sides. All Finnish region articles on en.wiki appear to use the maps with Finnish names. CMD (talk) 07:04, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

I see how confusing it may be if we don't use standardized set of maps for the same category of regions in Finland. They should be comparable and intuitive for sure. Theoretically, they can all be slightly wider. Honestly, I was not sure if the file used on French Wikipedia is with some historical boundaries, but it is contemporary map right? Maybe we should use that one? Additionally, somewhat non-standardized approach in this particular case (but certainly comparable with other regions) would probably not be particularly problematic considering somewhat unique status of the area.--MirkoS18 (talk) 07:28, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

The term Ahvenanmaa's dubious origins

According to The Åland Islands (1975, p. 110), by W. R. Mead and S. H. Jaatinen, the term "Ahvenanmaa" came about during the inter-war years (1920s or 1930s), "when fennicisation accorded Åland the name Ahvenanmaa in official documents", even though Swedish has been the language of the islands for centuries, with Finnish only being spoken by a tiny percent of the population. The claim should be removed. BulbousCow (talk) 23:13, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

finnish archipelago

The entry Finnish Archipelago says that it include the Aland, while this entry says that the Aaland are contiguous to it, that therefore cannot contain them. thanks. 151.29.149.29 (talk) 17:25, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Swedish disrespect of Åland's neutrality

Regarding "Swedish disrespect for Åland's demilitarized status in the 1930s": what forms was that disrespect and are there sources for this? 129.242.10.88 (talk) 09:49, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Not on the article, so removed for now. TylerBurden (talk) 18:32, 9 January 2024 (UTC)