Talk:Tokaji

Food and drink: Wine C‑class Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of food and drink related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Food and drinkWikipedia:WikiProject Food and drinkTemplate:WikiProject Food and drinkFood and drink articles

C

This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Related taskforces:
/
	This article is within the scope of Wines task force, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.

WikiProject Wine open tasks:

Here are some tasks you can do for WikiProject Wine:

Article request: Sebastiani family, Great Wine Capitals of the World.

Expand: any of the ~700 wine stubs, particularly the region and "miscellaneous" ones, Western Australian wine

Improve: Canadian wine, Greek wine, Vitis vinifera, wine serving temperature, Western Australian wine, other Start class articles

Articles to GA: Wine, Australian wine, Bordeaux wine, Burgundy wine, California wine, Champagne (wine), Chianti, Dessert wine, French wine, German wine, Grenache, Italian wine, Merlot, Pinot gris, Pinot noir, Rioja (wine), Spanish wine, Sparkling wine, Syrah, Tempranillo, Winemaking

Articles to FA: Cabernet Sauvignon, Riesling, Sauvignon blanc

Cleanup: Cleanup lists of wine-related articles: all articles and articles by category.

Unreferenced biographies of living persons

Copyedit: Aligoté, Cabernet franc, Malbec, Robert M. Parker, Jr., Pinot blanc, Rioja (wine)

Photo request: Just about all of them! Any pictures of wine regions, grape varieties or wine would be useful. In particular we need wine region maps that can be licensed for Wikipedia.

Collaboration: Operation stub-killer, Nominations for top level importance

Infobox: Template:Infobox grape variety, Template:Infobox winery

Other: Comment on the grape article template and on the grape infobox. Add to the Wikiquote page for wine: Wikiquote wine

view • edit • discuss • history • watch

Hungary Mid‑importance

	Hungary portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hungary, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Hungary on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HungaryWikipedia:WikiProject HungaryTemplate:WikiProject HungaryHungary articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Brands

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Brands, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of brands on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BrandsWikipedia:WikiProject BrandsTemplate:WikiProject BrandsBrands articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

This article has been mentioned by a media organization:

Suzanne Urpecz, Rueters (Feb 15th, 2011). "Kings' favourite wine reclaiming its heritage". {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)

Imperial Tokay

This is only mentioned in the "Popular Culture" section. What is it? It sounds like the best of the best, but there is no definition of it in the article. 95.149.54.104 (talk) 10:31, 4 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion header

Juro, OK if you insist then include the Slovak terms for types of wine in this article Scott Moore 13:38, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

This Juro guy is sick. Slovakian Tokaji - muhahahahaha forditas (Slovakian: forditas) :))))))

Why are you blaming ME???????? I am just collecting informations and opinions here, that's all. And ... maybe you should read newspapers and books occasionally...Juro 00:17, 12 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Szamorodni is Polish??? Xixixixi. Just note that there is no such word in the Polish language. On the other hand, in Slovak "samorodny" means something like "grown on its own" or "self-bearing" or "self-growing". If you want to adopt samorodne into Hungarian, you end up with szamorodni. But this interpretation would not fit Hungarian national myth. And note that Tokaj means a place where two rivers conflux. In old slavic it was Stokaj. Note that there is a confluence of two rivers at Tokaj village. And a hill named Tokaj in the Slovak part of the Tokaj region. Again where two rivers conflux. Anyway, Hungarian nationalism hinges on things like palinka (palenka==distilate in Slovak, from palit == to distil), Tokaji (partly Slovak), Petofi (serbo-croat origin) etc etc...Looks like a nation with pretty low confidence...BTW note how many loan words from the Slavic languages and German the Hungarian language has. great many (Takacs = Tkac = weaver, Meszaros = Mesiar = butcher, Kovacs= Kovac=smith are some of the most common surnames in Hungary. Nr. 3 is Toth = Slovak, Nr 5 or 6 is Horvath = Croat.....) Best, AladarP

I just don't understand how you could make such an assumption about the confidence of a nation based upon a natural method (loanwords) by which language changes. --Stacey Doljack Borsody 16:44, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

sorry for that, it was an unintended implication. The point was that if one has low confidence in him/her-self, only then he/she comes up with national myths to justify things. And what's most funny is that many hungarian sources of national pride are actually not genuine. (similar for Czech: slivovica is a plum destilate but in Czech plum is "svestka", not sliva, like in SLovak. Or take SLovakia: bryndza is a typical Slovak sheep-cheese, but the word is of Rumanian origin with the meaning as trivial as - cheese.) The loanword issue was just a marginal note. What I really hate is the penetration of national myths into national histories.AladarP

NOTE: samorodny exists in Polish: meaning: natural. szamorodni basically is a hungarized version of samorodny of Slovak or Polish origin. But what did Poles do in the Tokaji region??? There were none (excpet for visitors, of course)! It was rather the Slovak indigenous population that named this kind of wine samorodny. AladarP

You don't know what did the Poles did in Tokaji?? They bought the wine (or more specifically, significant exports went to Poland and hence Polish traders visited Tokaj). If the word szamorodni came from Slovak rather than Polish then why wasn't it recorded before the 19th century (after all, Slovaks had lived in the region since before szamorodni wine even existed)? Scott Moore 15:44, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I definitely agree with you about national myths. Everyone has their national myths that get in the way of objectively studying their history and with Hungarians it is doubly difficult :) . --Stacey Doljack Borsody 18:05, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Juro, why mixing viti/viniculture with other ongoing Hungarian-Slovakian disputes? Fifuszfc (talk) 20:48, 26 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Aladar, the point is Scott's it was the Polish who bought the most amount of Tokaji wine in the 15-16th century. Of course, there is a similarity between the Polish and Slovakian versions of the word 'szamorodni': both are Slavic languages. Fifuszfc (talk) 20:48, 26 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sborsody, it is also diffucult with you, Slovakians. I wonder when can we agree even on very basic things like the continuity between the Hungarian Kingdom and the Hungarian Republic... The Slovakians are equal to Hungarians, this fact has nothing to do with the language, the viticulture or the form of rule. Sorry for being off. Fifuszfc (talk) 20:48, 26 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Could I remind my fellow editors that this is not a discussion site. Please keep material and postings not related to writing an encyclopedic article on Tokaji wines out of this talk page. I would appreciate it if you instead invested your time in providing this article with appropriate inline citations to reliable sources. Thank you for your understanding. Tomas e (talk) 21:27, 26 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is Aszú berries a term for botrytised grapes? The section on Aszú wine says the process starts with picking those berries, but there's no explanation of what they are and I find very little reference to them on Google. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.177.29.74 (talk) 17:35, 20 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Gustav III of Sweden & Tokaji wine

This article claims that Gustav III, King of Sweden, never had any other wine to drink. Now, since it was a well-known luxury product of its times, I don't have any problems in believing that he did drink the stuff, and probably liked it. But saying that he never drank any other wine is a pretty strong statement, and one that needs to be backed up with an inline reference, with page number if it refers to a book, which has to be credible. (Remember that many wine books and articles are more marketing-oriented than well-researched, and that some of their statements may need to be read with skepticism when forming the basis of an encyclopedic article.) What I do know is that Gustav III was a great francophile (French was probably the only language spoken at court), and that the wine most commonly imported to Sweden at the time was Rhenish, along with some French and various fortified wines. (I.e., a situation not entirely unlike the UK, but with probably more focus on Rhenish wine.) The contemporary poet Carl Michael Bellman, who had close connections with the court and whose lyrics frequently are about drinking, drank French wine the first time he was dead drunk, and has frequent references to Rhenish wine in his lyrics, but to the best of my knowledge, never to Tokaji. With that background, I would be very surprised if French and Rhenish wine weren't served at Gustav III's court, but a quick online search unearthed no Swedish web sources about his drinking habits.
Come to think of it, some of the other claims of Tokaji drinkers should also be backed up with inline references, because this whole section is bordering on being non-encyclopedic. Tomas e (talk) 17:46, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Made a small start with citations, but RS yet to back up that Gustaf III was anything like an exclusive drinker :P Just a small add to the Bellman note above, *somewhat* off-topic, just because it touches on an interest of mine.. it's my impression that his vast lyric references to beverages are mostly as generic as "vin" and "Bränvin" (although several mentions of "Rödt Vin" and more specific "Hoglands vin" (Bordeaux), Frontignac (Muscat de Frontignan?) quite a bit "Mjöd" and "dubbelt Öl" and otherwise only 1 mention of Rhine I've found as in "friends [bottles] from Mosel and Rhen") MURGH ^disc. 19:02, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Manual of style

The article should begin with a straightforward, declarative sentence that, as briefly as possible, provides the reader who knows nothing at all about the article's subject with the answer to two questions:

And NOT with a big bottle. Warrington (talk) 20:16, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not 'másolás'

This is 'máslás', a derivated form of 'másolás', his "pair" is the 'fordítás'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.224.38.121 (talk) 13:38, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Famous consumers of Tokaji

This wine is famous, at least in English, as Tokay, not Tokaji. Are all, or most, of these "Tokaji drinkers" in fact Tokay drinkers?
That is almost certainly true of any of them who speak English.
Varlaam (talk) 22:07, 9 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

hitlers wedding

i believe that at hitlers wedding in the bunker, after the wedding in the reception, hitler and his guests at the wedding in the bunker drank tokai. can anyone else find this or know of this? thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mackdiesel5 (talk • contribs) 21:55, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.tokaj.hu/dl/media/group_47ce7dc01a102/group_47ce7de4b8b15/group_47cff55dbab69/item_815.pdf <- according to that John Toland, a Hitler biographer, claimed that the wine was present at Hitler's wedding (it's on page 8) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.120.184.122 (talk) 21:56, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Where it also says: "not supported by other Hitler sources" 99.37.120.34 (talk) 15:22, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wine of all varieties is served at plenty of weddings, and considering Hitler was a teetotaler, this probably speaks more to the wine that was on hand in his bunker in Berlin and the tastes of those around him, rather than any specific Hitlerian preference for Hungarian wine. Also, the link above states Hitler biographer John Toland mentions Tokay on Hitlers wedding (not supported by other Hitler sources). I'd say it's way too unencyclopedic and lacks proper sources to include. -Ich (talk) 21:01, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Famous consumers of Tokaji: "In 1703, Francis Rákóczi II, Prince of Transylvania, gave King Louis XIV of France some Tokaji wine from his Tokaj estate as a gift. The Tokaji wine was served at the French Royal court at Versailles, where it became known as Tokay. Delighted with the precious beverage, Louis XIV of France offered a glass of Tokaji to Madame de Pompadour, referring to it as "Vinum Regum, Rex Vinorum" ("Wine of Kings, King of Wines"). This famous line is used to this day in the marketing of Tokaji wines."

Madame de Pompadour was not yet born in 1703. Although the quote is truly associated to King Luis XIV, there is no way he could offer it to Madame Pompadour. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.75.158.251 (talk) 15:10, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]