Talk:Politics of Greece

Greece is a Puppet State

Well after signing those policies with IMF, having German observer, being threatened for many things if political parties wont cooperate with what "troika" says, having for president someone who Greeks never voted for and finally currently being told that it is better not to go for elections but better decide for a technocrat government without elections isn't this the definition of a puppet state? Mostly Europe and specifically some high european political and economics figures deal too much with internal affairs of another state. What do you think?

P.S. Not even mentioning many laws that are clearly in opposition with the Constitution of Greece just for the sake of the so called "help" . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.218.41.19 (talk) 02:59, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Totally agree. Today Greece looks like the years of military junta. Its not even a joke comparison. Its exackly how it was back then. No human rights, police is fascist, goverment parties preaching about democracy at the same time they ignore the constitution, immigrants are being tortured or killed and police doesnt act (video exist that actually police torture people), immigration camps look more like concetration camps without food, sometimes without water and without medicines. Media are controlled by the goverment and free journalists are being threatened every day. This is no more a democracy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.94.199.192 (talk) 12:02, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

The "Liberals Party" of the 2004 election results is different from Stephanos Manos's "The Liberals" political party

Stephanos Manos's "The Liberals" and the "Liberals Party" are two distinct political parties with no affiliation to each other. When the 2004 parliamentary elections took place, "The Liberals" had already been dissolved three years ago, and Stephanos Manos was riding the PASOK ticket for election to parliament. Confusing, I know, but that doesn't excuse mixing up political party names on an encyclopaedic entry.

Additionally, I've added some information to the part about private universities.

Caramanlis? Karamanlis? Konstantinos?

In the political parties and leaders, the New Democracy party leader is listed as Konstantinos Karamanlis. Is he Costas Karamanlis, the current prime minister or his father? And also, in the politican leaders list, there is a Costas Karamanlis, but above in the text he appears as Costas Caramanlis. I don't know which one is the correct or more widespread transliteration but for consistency, shouldn't both be spelled the same?--leandros 09:21, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Actually, the late Konstantinos Karamanlis was the uncle of the current Prime Minister of Greece, not the father. Plus, both Konstantinos and Constantinos is popular in use, but it's definately Karamanlis with a K, as in KDE. During the last EU Summit meeting, every european channel had its own spelling of his name. But here's what I'll do: I'll go ahead and change all the Cs in the surname and the first name into Ks, in order to have Konsistancy ;) . Anybody asks, tell them the Cookie Monster ate'em --Project2501a 13:30, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Done -- Project2501a 13:55, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Religion

Greece, this modern country, in the EU and supposedly Democratic, still doesn't have a separation of Church and State and declares that it only has a 2% minority...what a laugh! - unsigned comment by 68.162.126.118

Well, obviously, we don't know how to accomplish such a feat. why don't you come over and help us? Project2501a 20:46, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The "unsigned commentator" criticizes the lack of seperation between Church and State in Greece. I would like to ask him if he thinks that Great Britain faces the same problem, since the Queen leads the English Church. The "unsigned commentator" also critisizes the position of the government that the only important religious minority in Greece in the musulman one (1,5% of the population). I would like to ask him to state the other religious minorities that he thinks the government hides. I would finally answer to The "unsigned commentator" that it is easy to accuse and distort the truth but it is difficult to prove your fake arguments.

Judicial Branch

I rewrited the section "Judicial Branch", because it lacked any real analysis and because even the two short propositions, which existed, were faulse. The names of the courts were wrong, the competence was wrong, the coise of the members was wrong (the Greek President has nothing to do with the choice of the members of the Supreme Courts). I hope that my intervention is going to be received with applause. Respectively, I changed the names of the Supreme COurts in the "politics-politics portal" and I added the Court of Cassation and the Chamber of Accounts, which were not referred, as they should. Yannismarou 21:10, the 25th of March 2006 (UTC)

--If your re-writing of that section is anything like the above post, you need to stay away from Wikipedia's English version!! Errors: rewrote, not rewrited / false, not faulse / choice, not coise /. Jeez... it's TERRIBLE. Leave the English to the experts, mmmkay?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.69.81.2 (talk) 21:11, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Greek ministry of defence apologetics

Although these figures (GDP consumed in armament spending) seem huge, we must point out, in fairness of the applied policy, that Greece faces certain particular geostrategical challenges. It is the only EU country without any land borders with another EU state (its borders are the external EU borders) and the relations with Turkey remain tense, since the Cyprus dispute is still unresolved. As a result, the devotion of large sums of the budget in armament spending consists an unpleasant but, nevertheless, inescapable reality.

Bullshit! I've been hearing this excuse for the past 10 years now, and it either comes from Greek nationalists or for Apologetics for the Greek ministry of Defence! "Innescapable reality", my ass! The Greek National bank just bought 45% of the Turkish National bank! Where the heck do you people see all that "tension"? And pardon me, but both Bulgaria and FYROM are gonna be FULL EU MEMBERS in 2007! Fyrom just announced it is abolishing their conscription system in 2007!!! WHAT IS THAT INNESCAPABABLE REALITY, REALLY? Project2501a | ΑΝΥΠΟΤΑΞΙΑ, ΑΠΑΛΛΑΓΗ, Ι-5 11:13, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

(or Project2501a's creative imagination!)

The fact that you do not agree with my edit, it does not mean that you have the right to remove it.
My edit does not violate the NPOV, since I expose facts, and I do not understand who gave you the right to delete what I wrote (nobody, of course!).
On the other hand, your edit is more closely to a NPOV violation, but I didn't delete it (I respected you; something that you didn't, my friend!)! Hence, I'll restore my edit and do not make the same mistake to delete it, because you cannot imagine how stubborn I am!
Now, I do not care about your insults, but, If you really want to know who I am, go to my userpage and learn about me.
Finally, I believe that your comments on military service (and the conscription) are inaccurate, totally POV, inappropriate for Wikipedia or any other encyclopedias (encyclopedias are not forums!) and inappropriate for the country you needlessly and unwarily assail. I can explain the reasons I believe all these things, but I'm sure that you don't care and you won't understand.
Just make one thing: Go to articles in Wikipedia concerning any other country and, if you find any slandering or offensive comments against these countries like yours against Greece, then come and tell me.
Ah! And the Greek National Bank didn't buy the 45% of the Turkish National Bank, but the 46% of the "Finansbank", ranked just 8th in Turkey (see Economist [April 8th-14th, page 76, Turkish Banks by assets]).
And if you want to see tension, don't talk to me about the Finansbank! Just go to Imia for fishing! --Yannismarou 11:57, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Which way to the Front?

> since I expose facts,

Single-sided, nationalistic, apologetic, facts?

> who gave you the right to delete what I wrote

The wiki did.

> Hence, I'll restore my edit and do not make the same mistake to delete it, because you cannot imagine how stubborn I am!

Ooh, threat?

> I do not care about your insults,

Insults? what insults?

> I believe that your comments on military service (and the conscription) are inaccurate, totally POV, inappropriate for Wikipedia or any other encyclopedias

Please! :D go ahead and prove me wrong :D (ΚΑΝΕΝΑΣ ΠΟΙΟ ΠΑΛΙΟΣ ΡΕ;) I'm just mentioning the facts. It's not my fault the facts don't reflect well on Greece. What would you rather have me do? use an επικοινωνιακό κόλπο (translation: Public relations stunt) in order to make the Greek goverment look good?

> This user is a jurist and a postgraduate of Public Administration.

OMG! Ένας κρατικοδίαιτος καρεκλοκένταυρος και μελλοντικός βολευτής!!!!!!!1 Μήπως είσαι και σΠΑΣΟΚ; Μήπως και έχεις και το Κυριάκο Μιτσοτάκη βύζμα; Τι άλλο θα δούμε; Τον Δήμο Βερήκιο να κάνει το παπαγαλάκι στη Wikipedia; (Translation: YAY! yet another goverment-fed employee and future-senator-hopeful! Should I cheer for your success, Oh future Ceasar? )

> and inappropriate for the country you needlessly and unwarily assail.

Facts are never innapropriate. Shame is brought upon Greece by it's own doings :) It's not my fault I lost 5 line brothers in the Manitsa incident :) Nor that the Sworn-in Deposition conducted by General Karavas was later overturned by the District Attorney. It's not my fault the DA changed the cause of death from "negligence from fault of conscriptees" to Capital Manslaughter. It's not my fault the DA charged the Base Commander and CO on duty with Grand Manslaughter and the Greek Power Company with Accomplice to Murder. :) It's not my fault I lost 2 friends in the C-130 crash 10 years ago. It's not my fault that Hummer jeep was stollen from one of the "best guarded" Marine camp in the country by a convicted fellon nonetheless, nor that that the 6th railroad accident within a span of 6 months happened today. It's not my fault Greece will spend 22 billion euros in the next ten years, (higher than any other country in the mediteranian or its neighbouring countries) in arms purchasing in an attempt to overspend Turkey, while the basic wage has been lingering at 450 euros for 6 years now. It's not my fault industrial workers will recieve 10% increase in their wages ever the next 3 years, while inflation is over 6% each year. It's not my fault that the president of GSEE (Greek Syndicate of Industrial Workers, nothing to do with the IWW), Polizogopoulos is a sellout and that he was beaten up, though it is my personal oponion he deserves to be sent to the hospital one more time. It's not my fault that 5 pimps govern Greece. It's not my fault 45% of the GPD is used for the salaries of goverment employees. It's not my fault that there are over 20 deaths in the Corinth-Patras highway each 6 months. It's not my fault that Christodoulos is a Junta sympathiser.

It's not my fault i'll be paying for the 1980s "Buy of the Century" and the Koskotas scandal for the next 50+ years. (Σήκω Αντρέα για να δείς αν τα τρών καλά τα δις!). It's not my fault Social Security is defunct and broke ever since 1983 and that any funds left, were used in the Greek stock market scandal. It's not my fault that there's a good chance Greek economy might go belly up in 30 years, and sure as hell i don't wanna pay the sins of some Napoleons or some Squealer of Mass Media baron, who uses the media to his own advantage?

Bad management and bad "leadership" on behalf of each and every ruling Greek Goverment for the past 40 years is.

George Kouris vs Kontominas anyone? Celebrity Deathmatch!

I've been hearing that "it's the circumstances!" excuse for 30 years now: it's never in our hand to change things, it's always the circumstances. it's the americans, it's the british, the ethiopians, damn it, the Maori! Those damn Maori, especially, they are conspiring against us, cuz they hate us and our culture!

I'm not attacking any country. No, let me rephrase that. I am attaching Greece. But only as much as Nikos Dimou was and still is. Does that make me anti-Greek? Critisising my own country? The political climate in my own country. No-one was a prophet in their own land: The unfortune of being Greek. Greece, much like Kronos, is eating her own children. I'm tired of playing Estragon. I'm tired of playing the nice guy. My Greek shoulders can bare no weight no more cuz they snapped in two. I'm tired of House Negroes, Negro.

So, let me guess, you gonna go along with the usual show-and-tell show and tell me that if i don't like how things are in Greece, i should get the hell out?

> I can explain the reasons I believe all these things, but I'm sure that you don't care and you won't understand.

Please, do go ahead. We'll both put up our degrees: Your degree in public administration (*cough*figurehead*cough), vs my degrees in Computer Science and Applied Mathematics, with minors in Computer Engineering, History and Political Science.

> And the Greek National Bank didn't buy the 45% of the Turkish National Bank, but the 46% of the "Finansbank",

OOOH, my bad, my apologies, it's not the 1st largest bank of turkey that the Greek National bank saved from financial peril, it's the 8th. my sincere apologies.

> Just go to Imia for fishing!

I did. It's a freaking goat island. It was never about the island. It's all about the oil in the bottom of the Aegian Sea. So, please, stop your flagwaving.

Where's the war? who the heck is shooting at us? Ah, well! Launch missiles! Kill'em all! (But i'm le tired :D )

Project2501a | ΑΝΥΠΟΤΑΞΙΑ, ΑΠΑΛΛΑΓΗ, Ι-5 21:04, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Guys, no need to get your heads hot over this. I tried to mend this piece of the article the Wikipedia way: Citations. Please read the hidden parts of what I wrote in the article (I mean the ones in <!-- blah blah blah --> ) and comment. --Michalis Famelis 21:13, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. Yannismarou, that paragraph is POV and does not present any citations, especially for the "inescapable reality" bit. bogdan 21:24, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

As you can see, I took away the inesvapable reality comment, which was really a POV and my mistake. But, nothing else was POV. I go along with the new more extended version and I feel happy my position was taken into serious consideration. But, I have to say some things to my friend Project2501a. And I ll tell it in greek, since he answers me in greek:

1)Πρώτα από ολα, όσο και να προσπαθήσεις τα πολιτικά μου πιστεύω δεν πρόκειται να καταλάβεις, διότι δεν αφορούν κανέναν και, ιδίως, τη wikipedia. Οπότε λέγε όσες ασυναρτησίες θες, σχετικά. 2)Οι προσωπικές σου εμπειρίες δε δικαιολογούν τη χρήση της wikipedia ή οποιασδήποτε άλλης εγκυκλοπαίδειας για να βγάζεις προσωπικές πικρίες, δυσαρέσκειες ή στενοχώριες. Βρες άλλους τρόπους. Φτιάξε ένα blog! Βγάλε εφημερίδα! Όσο δίκιο και να έχεις, δε θα πειστώ ποτέ ότι έχεις διαλέξει το σωστό τρόπο, για να εκφραστείς. 3) Τουλάχιστον, εγώ έχω κάποια βιογραφικά και προσωπικά στοιχεία στο user site μου. Να ξέρει ο κόσμος ποιος είμαι. Δε σ' αρέσει; Δεν πειράζει! Εσύ από την άλλη είσαι ένας anti-conscription guy. Αν αυτό σε εκφράζει, μπράβο σου! 4) Κρατικοδίαιτος;! Φίλε, εγώ όπου πέρασα, πέρασα με εξετάσεις και χωρίς να μοu κάνει πλάτες κανείς ούτε να γλείψω κανέναν. Τον Κυριάκο μπορεί να τον έχεις ανάγκη εσύ κάποια στιγμή, αλλά εγώ δεν τον χρειάστηκα και δε θα τον χρειαστώ ποτέ. Μου αρκεί η αξία μου, που παραδόξως περνάει ακόμη πού και πού στην Ελλάδα. 5) Το Δημόσιο με πληρώνει, αλλά δε μου κάνει χάρη. Του τα παίρνω, γιατί έδωσα εξετάσεις και πέταξα απόξω κάμποσα βίσματα που εποφθαλμιούσαν τη θέση μου. Οπότε ούτε ντρέπομαι για τα χρήματα που παίρνω ούτε έχω καμιά υποχρέωση στο δημόσιο. Δε μου χάρισε τίποτε και δεν του χρωστώ καμιά υποχρέωση. 6) Και έγω έκανα στρατό. Και ούτε εγώ τρελάθηκα με τη θητεία. Αλλά τα απωθημένα μου τα κρατάω για εκεί που πρέπει και όχι για άσχετα forum. 7) Και στο κάτω κάτω της γραφής, άντε γεια, γιατί έχω και εξετάσεις τώρα. (Ξέρεις τι είναι αυτό;)--Yannismarou 07:11, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Title of the section is "military spending"

And that has nothing to do with spending on health and education. Project2501, if you want to talk about these matters without inserting your particular anarcho-communist "I don't wanna go to the army" mama's boy bias, you'd better start a new section on health spending. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.251.126.22 (talk • contribs)

What's wrong with comparing military spending with health and education spending? and as far as having a portofolio, dude, pot calling kettle black. Project2501a | ΑΝΥΠΟΤΑΞΙΑ, ΑΠΑΛΛΑΓΗ, Ι-5 Project2501a 09:07, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Although I loathe the unsigned comments, I must point out that I absolutely agree with this one. It's popularist and inaccurate to say that "the government spends for the army and that's why nothing goes to the lower classes".
Oh, Ok! Hence, in Greece bad politics is congruent with military spending.
Yea! That's it! Now, let's get serious. Does anyone really believe that ill-health and ill-education in Greece are due to the military spending?! OK! So, if we abrogate any military spending, does anybody honestly believe that we'll resolve the health and education problem? Does anybody honestly believe that less military spending entails better health? Well, military spending is gradually going down. Did anybody show better health or education because of this very reason? And the gradual improvishment of lower classes is also due to military spending?!! What is that "military service", at last? A huge Lebiathan shadowing everything in Greece or, even better, the reincarnation of Dracula? Yea! It's a new grisly monster, drinking Greece's blood with its huge teeth!!!! And Greece is coddling the monster, since it is riddled with the repurcussions of this bad bad bad bad thing: The uterus of all evils: the awfull (Oh! I do not dare to articulate the word!) "military spending".
I have no money to make politics: Have you heard that? It is the easy excuse in Greece. But it's not true. Most of the times, the will lacks not the money. Even if you don't have the adequate money, you can have positive results, if you are effective.
Hence, I think it is totally naive and inaccurate to say that "the lower taxes have problems because of the military spending etc." or "bad health is due to the military spending".
These are naive excuses for naive minds.
Huge deficit, dept and bad management along with some doses of popularism are the reasons for these inaptitudes. Military spending is the easy excuse, the bait some people bite. Well, if there are people who buy such excuses and if they also swallow the popularist cries of the party-affiliated syndicats in Greece, that's their problem. --Yannismarou 10:12, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Yanni try to understand that I am not trying to push any agenda here, I am just trying to present in a complete way the political issue of military spending from all its facets. It is not me that's saying that money cut from the defence budget could (or should or would) be directed to healthcare, education or the lower classes. I am just reporting what mainstream politicians have publicly stated (with citations). It is Christodoulakis who speaks of a "peace dividend" and the parties of the left that speak of relieving the lower classes.

On the opening paragraph I included the figures regarding the percentage of the GDP Greece spends on healthcare and education. But I only mentioned them in a neutral way, with no judgemental language. And I did so because the article is about the politcal issue. It is not the true needs of the country, but about the political debate around these needs. Therefore the context of the debate must be established.

All I tried to do was to describe the debate. And I did it by (1) establishing the context of the debate and (2) providing cited opinions of those involved in the debate. I did not get into judgmental language, I just cold bloodedly reported. And I think this is NPOV.

--Michalis Famelis 10:40, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

OK, Michali. That's fine with me.--Yannismarou 12:19, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

Most recent edits are pure acts of vandalism. Is there a way to protect the article somehow? Pel thal (talk) 13:26, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Important notice

The government section of the "Outline of Greece" needs to be checked, corrected, and completed -- especially the subsections for the government branches.

When the country outlines were created, temporary data (that matched most of the countries but not all) was used to speed up the process. Those countries for which the temporary data does not match must be replaced with the correct information.

Please check that this country's outline is not in error.

If you have any questions or comments, please contact The Transhumanist .

Thank you.

Why the use of quotes? This is the truth...

""" The Greek Orthodox Church is under the protection of the State, which pays the clergy's salaries, and Orthodox Christianity is the "'prevailing" religion of Greece according to the Constitution. The Greek Orthodox Church is self-governing but under the spiritual guidance of the Ecumenical Patriarch in Constantinople. Freedom of religious beliefs is guaranteed by the Constitution, but "proselytism" is officially illegal. """

I do not understand the quotes on prevailing and proselytism. Can someone elaborate? The word prevailing shows up as-is in the Hellenic Carta Magna, thus, no need of quotes in there. Then, again, under Hellenic law, proselytism is illegal with severe punishment. Why the quotes in there again?

188.77.168.210 (talk) 20:34, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Official colors

The officials colors of ΣΥ.ΡΙΖ.Α. (Coalition of the Radical Left) are red, green and purple (sometimes pink, also). You cannot color them with yellow. --Το αλλήθωρο οπόσουμ (talk) 19:51, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

There's another mistake: "Popular Orthodox Rally" (Λαϊκός Ορθόδοξος Συναγερμός), actually means Orthodox Rally of People (I don't actually think they're popular). You know, like you say "People's Republic of China" or "People Republic of North Korea". --Το αλλήθωρο οπόσουμ (talk) 20:26, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Government not Politics

This article appears to be mainly about the government and constitution of Greece rather than its politics, as indicated by the introduction 'The politics of Greece takes place in ....'. For example, there is no list of political parties. Clivemacd (talk) 21:55, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Agree.Bnulat (talk) 14:32, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Article update

I suggest we delete the last paragraph of section "Maintaining the support of parliament" - 'tis out of date and there is no other section that requires this kind of updatedness. It could just refer to the separate article "Cabinet of Greece". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bnulat (talk • contribs) 14:23, 17 January 2020 (UTC)